6 ms·

$7500 EV tax credit will end for Model 3 RWD and Long Range

30 points by techplex 3y ago

infamouscow 3y ago
[flagged]
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Battery content. This is to stoke the buildout of the US battery manufacturing supply chain, and will derisk against geopolitical risk and China holding the energy transition hostage. As Charlie Munger said, “Show me the incentives, I'll show you the outcome.” https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-limit-chinese-firms-battery-parts-winning-ev-tax-credits-2023-12-01/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-lim... ("US to limit Chinese firms, battery parts from winning EV tax credits") (My take: It's just good policy considering global decoupling of trade and deglobalization in general; you must build to own your future and destiny, we are learning this the hard way after offshoring for decades)
  - okasaki 3y ago
    Global decoupling of trade and deglobalization is good? Who decided that?
    - NewJazz 3y ago
      The geriatric US Senate.
    - foogazi 3y ago
      That’s not what parent comment said
    - bee_rider 3y ago
      Energy infrastructure is pretty fundamental stuff, it is good to have some independence. There are alternative configurations for globalization other than: everybody buys everything from one country.
    - mint2 3y ago
      Oh I don’t know, call me crazy but perhaps, just perhaps it could be the massive failure of the west’s several decade bet from like 1990 through 2015ish that open trade with Russia and China would influence their behaviors for the better. In reality all it did was give fairly hostile countries substantial leverage over the west. Good outcome yeah! But im not a libertarian on the internet so what do I know.
      - okasaki 3y ago
        Free trade certainly didn't make American behavior any better, so I don't know why anybody thought that.
- papercrane 3y ago
  > I thought Biden's administration was all about green energy. What gives? Your complaint should be with the legislative branch, not the executive. The Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 added requirements on the battery material sources to come into effect 2024. The biggest problem for most EVs is that the act requires the materials not to come from a "foreign entity of concern" (FEOC) to qualify for the rebate. China is designated as an FEOC and most EV batteries have materials from China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act
NewJazz 3y ago
Only these 10 EVs will qualify for the full federal tax credit in 2024 Chevrolet Bolt EV - $26,500 Chevrolet Equinox EV - $48,995 Ford F-150 Lightning - $49,995 Tesla Model 3 Performance - $50,990 Chevrolet Silverado - $51,895 Tesla Model Y Performance - $52,490 Chrysler Pacifica PHEV - $53,425 Chevrolet Blazer EV - $60,215 Cadillac LYRIQ - $58,590 Tesla Model X - $79,990 https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/only-these-ten-evs-will-qualify-for-the-full-federal-tax-credit-in-2024 https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/only-these-ten-e...
- NewJazz 3y ago
  I guess the Model X somehow got classified as an SUV/light-truck, so they can sell it for much higher and still qualify for the subsidy. But it is questionable how many people who meet the income requirements for the subsidy are going to buy an 80k car in the first place.
  - Kirby64 3y ago
    If the Mach-E, Lyriq, and Model Y are classified on the 80k limit, the Model X definitely should be.
    - NewJazz 3y ago
      Frankly I don't know why bigger vehicles qualify for the subsidy more easily to begin with. America continues to incentivize bigger vehicles even though they are proven to be more dangerous for pedestrians.
      - wil421 3y ago
        Because they are trying to incentivize EV adoption not smaller vehicles. The top selling segments are SUVs and trucks. If you want to tackle emissions it makes sense to go after the popular vehicle types.
        3y ago
Ancalagon 3y ago
Huge bummer for the EV industry but they’re honestly still just too expensive up front. First you need to have a home with a garage, then you need to have a 220v charging port - preferably two, preferably solar panels - and only then does it make sense to buy a base model for 40k, which is pretty expensive and never mind financing with these interest rates.
- NewJazz 3y ago
  You don't need all of that. If you can charge at home that is helpful (even at L1 rates), but if you live near a DCFC that works too. 40k also isn't really expensive for a new car. It is below average.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  Plugging in to L1 charging overnight for 12 hours will get you 420 miles a week of range, enough for 30 miles per week day and 270 on the weekend. More than that on the weekend and you're probably using a DC day charger anyways. You really only need 220V if you're driving >50 miles per weekday. Or if you're parking outside in the winter. 120v will keep your battery warm or charge, but not both.

30 points by techplex 3y ago

infamouscow 3y ago

[flagged]

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Battery content. This is to stoke the buildout of the US battery manufacturing supply chain, and will derisk against geopolitical risk and China holding the energy transition hostage. As Charlie Munger said, “Show me the incentives, I'll show you the outcome.” https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-limit-chinese-firms-battery-parts-winning-ev-tax-credits-2023-12-01/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-lim... ("US to limit Chinese firms, battery parts from winning EV tax credits") (My take: It's just good policy considering global decoupling of trade and deglobalization in general; you must build to own your future and destiny, we are learning this the hard way after offshoring for decades)
- okasaki 3y ago
  Global decoupling of trade and deglobalization is good? Who decided that?
  - NewJazz 3y ago
    The geriatric US Senate.
  - foogazi 3y ago
    That’s not what parent comment said
  - bee_rider 3y ago
    Energy infrastructure is pretty fundamental stuff, it is good to have some independence. There are alternative configurations for globalization other than: everybody buys everything from one country.
  - mint2 3y ago
    Oh I don’t know, call me crazy but perhaps, just perhaps it could be the massive failure of the west’s several decade bet from like 1990 through 2015ish that open trade with Russia and China would influence their behaviors for the better. In reality all it did was give fairly hostile countries substantial leverage over the west. Good outcome yeah! But im not a libertarian on the internet so what do I know.
    - okasaki 3y ago
      Free trade certainly didn't make American behavior any better, so I don't know why anybody thought that.
papercrane 3y ago
> I thought Biden's administration was all about green energy. What gives? Your complaint should be with the legislative branch, not the executive. The Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 added requirements on the battery material sources to come into effect 2024. The biggest problem for most EVs is that the act requires the materials not to come from a "foreign entity of concern" (FEOC) to qualify for the rebate. China is designated as an FEOC and most EV batteries have materials from China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_Reduction_Act

NewJazz 3y ago

Only these 10 EVs will qualify for the full federal tax credit in 2024 Chevrolet Bolt EV - $26,500 Chevrolet Equinox EV - $48,995 Ford F-150 Lightning - $49,995 Tesla Model 3 Performance - $50,990 Chevrolet Silverado - $51,895 Tesla Model Y Performance - $52,490 Chrysler Pacifica PHEV - $53,425 Chevrolet Blazer EV - $60,215 Cadillac LYRIQ - $58,590 Tesla Model X - $79,990 https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/only-these-ten-evs-will-qualify-for-the-full-federal-tax-credit-in-2024 https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/only-these-ten-e...

NewJazz 3y ago
I guess the Model X somehow got classified as an SUV/light-truck, so they can sell it for much higher and still qualify for the subsidy. But it is questionable how many people who meet the income requirements for the subsidy are going to buy an 80k car in the first place.
- Kirby64 3y ago
  If the Mach-E, Lyriq, and Model Y are classified on the 80k limit, the Model X definitely should be.
  - NewJazz 3y ago
    Frankly I don't know why bigger vehicles qualify for the subsidy more easily to begin with. America continues to incentivize bigger vehicles even though they are proven to be more dangerous for pedestrians.
    - wil421 3y ago
      Because they are trying to incentivize EV adoption not smaller vehicles. The top selling segments are SUVs and trucks. If you want to tackle emissions it makes sense to go after the popular vehicle types.
      - 3y ago

Ancalagon 3y ago

Huge bummer for the EV industry but they’re honestly still just too expensive up front. First you need to have a home with a garage, then you need to have a 220v charging port - preferably two, preferably solar panels - and only then does it make sense to buy a base model for 40k, which is pretty expensive and never mind financing with these interest rates.

NewJazz 3y ago
You don't need all of that. If you can charge at home that is helpful (even at L1 rates), but if you live near a DCFC that works too. 40k also isn't really expensive for a new car. It is below average.
bryanlarsen 3y ago
Plugging in to L1 charging overnight for 12 hours will get you 420 miles a week of range, enough for 30 miles per week day and 270 on the weekend. More than that on the weekend and you're probably using a DC day charger anyways. You really only need 220V if you're driving >50 miles per weekday. Or if you're parking outside in the winter. 120v will keep your battery warm or charge, but not both.