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Yeah, but it is plainly obvious that “recall” is a loaded term here. Yes, it is strictly true that it is the name for the thing that regulators are saying— But

Yeah, but it is plainly obvious that “recall” is a loaded term here. Yes, it is strictly true that it is the name for the thing that regulators are saying— But nothing is getting “recalled” in the literal meaning of the word. “Tesla ships mandatory software update OTA to address bug” is much more accurate to how this affects real people.

MBCook 3y ago
It is loaded. It means a critical safety issue has been found by the government and they’re forcing it to be fixed. That comes with various timeline and notification requirements. That’s all it means. Whether or not you have to drive to a specific building to get it done is not and never has been a requirement of the recall process. That’s just how automakers have done it, mostly out of lack of OTA and unwillingness to send techs to invidual peoples houses.
- light_hue_1 3y ago
  We need a different word. This is not a recall.
  - chrisco255 3y ago
    Software update with a critical fix?
  - cush 3y ago
    How would you manage this? If a recall is ordered, and a OTA update is possible… undo the recall and change the name of the recall…? Again there’s no way for the regulator to know how the recall should be fixed. It makes no sense to give it a different name just to appease the semantics of not actually driving the car to a shop to fix the problem.
  - LastTrain 3y ago
    Why, what harm is being caused by using this one?
  - leetgirl83 3y ago
    They will never put "software update" and "recall" in the same headline. That will defeat the purpose of their headline, which is to make Tesla look bad.
- MetaWhirledPeas 3y ago
  Words matter. "Recall" had a very specific meaning in the past before OTA updates: your vehicle was recalled to the dealership to be retrofitted for safety reasons, which is obviously very inconvenient for the owner of the vehicle. These OTA "recalls" are safety issues too, but the wording still implies the inconvenience of dropping your car off to be altered by a mechanic, which is not the case. New terminology would be preferable.
  - acdha 3y ago
    Contact your congressional representatives and let them know that you feel strongly about this word. The NHTSA has been delegated authority to ensure the safety of the American vehicle fleet and the official name for the process where a manufacturer makes sure they notify every purchaser that a defect needs to be corrected uses that term.
  - cush 3y ago
    There’s not much to debate in convenience vs safety... It’s an implied inconvenience (taking the car in) that doesn’t actually exist (people aren’t actually taking their cars in), vs accurately conveying a public safety message (the recall indicated the car needs to be fixed). OTA updates aren’t infallible. It’s safer to be over cautious.
- WillPostForFood 3y ago
  It means a critical safety issue has been found by the government and they’re forcing it to be fixed. Manufacturers can initiate recalls, they aren't always, or mostly, issues found by the NHTSA. They are required to report them to the NHTSA who track and monitor them. I wouldn't say they are necessarily "critical" either. Here is the list of recalls for a 2005 Toyota Camry, for example. https://www.autosafety.org/vehicle-safety-check/2005-toyota-camry/ https://www.autosafety.org/vehicle-safety-check/2005-toyota-...
  - thejazzman 3y ago
    In reality, it's like someone being given the opportunity to retire before being fired. It's a polite chance to take ownership rather than it being forced. Apparently Tesla has to be forced. As an owner with Auto Pilot I don't know how to feel. It's most likely just going to make the product more annoying / less useful rather than inherently safer. I mean, you can't install radar through an OTA, so... :(
moolcool 3y ago
The term is rightfully loaded, and it is being used correctly. The hazard being an OTA patchable software issue doesn't soften the risk, so why soften the language?
- spiderice 3y ago
  Because having one word mean two different things is less clear than having two words that mean two different things.
  - strofcon 3y ago
    Except that the word, "recall", doesn't have two different meanings. It literally means the same thing here as it does for a recall wherein a Jeep has to have its shifter replaced / tweaked / whatever. Just so happens that the latter can't be fixed via software, because it's not a software-based safety failure. The former is fixable via software update, because it is a software-based safety failure. Both, however, are safety failures. Both need to be fixed. Both situations incurred regulatory requirements to notify customers and provide a timely fix at no cost to affected customers, whether within or without the vehicle's warranty. In short: both are recalls, and recall means the same thing in both cases: notify, fix, or face regulatory consequences.
    - filoleg 3y ago
      > Except that the word, "recall", doesn't have two different meanings. To the car owner who has to deal with a “recall”, it functionally does. One type of a recall requires you to drive to a dealership/service center and leave your car there while the issue is being resolved. The other type requires you to do nothing aside from just waiting for the OTA update to install.
  - cush 3y ago
    There’s a reason software uses a floppy disk as the icon for save. The fact that a recall doesn’t involve driving the car to a dealer to have the fix applied is completely irrelevant to what recall actually means.

MBCook 3y ago

It is loaded. It means a critical safety issue has been found by the government and they’re forcing it to be fixed. That comes with various timeline and notification requirements. That’s all it means. Whether or not you have to drive to a specific building to get it done is not and never has been a requirement of the recall process. That’s just how automakers have done it, mostly out of lack of OTA and unwillingness to send techs to invidual peoples houses.

light_hue_1 3y ago
We need a different word. This is not a recall.
- chrisco255 3y ago
  Software update with a critical fix?
- cush 3y ago
  How would you manage this? If a recall is ordered, and a OTA update is possible… undo the recall and change the name of the recall…? Again there’s no way for the regulator to know how the recall should be fixed. It makes no sense to give it a different name just to appease the semantics of not actually driving the car to a shop to fix the problem.
- LastTrain 3y ago
  Why, what harm is being caused by using this one?
- leetgirl83 3y ago
  They will never put "software update" and "recall" in the same headline. That will defeat the purpose of their headline, which is to make Tesla look bad.
MetaWhirledPeas 3y ago
Words matter. "Recall" had a very specific meaning in the past before OTA updates: your vehicle was recalled to the dealership to be retrofitted for safety reasons, which is obviously very inconvenient for the owner of the vehicle. These OTA "recalls" are safety issues too, but the wording still implies the inconvenience of dropping your car off to be altered by a mechanic, which is not the case. New terminology would be preferable.
- acdha 3y ago
  Contact your congressional representatives and let them know that you feel strongly about this word. The NHTSA has been delegated authority to ensure the safety of the American vehicle fleet and the official name for the process where a manufacturer makes sure they notify every purchaser that a defect needs to be corrected uses that term.
- cush 3y ago
  There’s not much to debate in convenience vs safety... It’s an implied inconvenience (taking the car in) that doesn’t actually exist (people aren’t actually taking their cars in), vs accurately conveying a public safety message (the recall indicated the car needs to be fixed). OTA updates aren’t infallible. It’s safer to be over cautious.
WillPostForFood 3y ago
It means a critical safety issue has been found by the government and they’re forcing it to be fixed. Manufacturers can initiate recalls, they aren't always, or mostly, issues found by the NHTSA. They are required to report them to the NHTSA who track and monitor them. I wouldn't say they are necessarily "critical" either. Here is the list of recalls for a 2005 Toyota Camry, for example. https://www.autosafety.org/vehicle-safety-check/2005-toyota-camry/ https://www.autosafety.org/vehicle-safety-check/2005-toyota-...
- thejazzman 3y ago
  In reality, it's like someone being given the opportunity to retire before being fired. It's a polite chance to take ownership rather than it being forced. Apparently Tesla has to be forced. As an owner with Auto Pilot I don't know how to feel. It's most likely just going to make the product more annoying / less useful rather than inherently safer. I mean, you can't install radar through an OTA, so... :(

moolcool 3y ago

The term is rightfully loaded, and it is being used correctly. The hazard being an OTA patchable software issue doesn't soften the risk, so why soften the language?

spiderice 3y ago
Because having one word mean two different things is less clear than having two words that mean two different things.
- strofcon 3y ago
  Except that the word, "recall", doesn't have two different meanings. It literally means the same thing here as it does for a recall wherein a Jeep has to have its shifter replaced / tweaked / whatever. Just so happens that the latter can't be fixed via software, because it's not a software-based safety failure. The former is fixable via software update, because it is a software-based safety failure. Both, however, are safety failures. Both need to be fixed. Both situations incurred regulatory requirements to notify customers and provide a timely fix at no cost to affected customers, whether within or without the vehicle's warranty. In short: both are recalls, and recall means the same thing in both cases: notify, fix, or face regulatory consequences.
  - filoleg 3y ago
    > Except that the word, "recall", doesn't have two different meanings. To the car owner who has to deal with a “recall”, it functionally does. One type of a recall requires you to drive to a dealership/service center and leave your car there while the issue is being resolved. The other type requires you to do nothing aside from just waiting for the OTA update to install.
- cush 3y ago
  There’s a reason software uses a floppy disk as the icon for save. The fact that a recall doesn’t involve driving the car to a dealer to have the fix applied is completely irrelevant to what recall actually means.