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The details are scant, but it sounds like the vehicle is going to be quicker to disable autopilot if it thinks you aren’t paying attention. I’m curious to see

by kbos87 3y ago

The details are scant, but it sounds like the vehicle is going to be quicker to disable autopilot if it thinks you aren’t paying attention. I’m curious to see what this amounts to because Autopilot is already pretty sensitive to this. Pick up your phone or look away from the road for more than a few seconds and the in-cabin car notices and warns you. I don’t know of a comparable system in any car with self driving or without.

pseudocomposer 3y ago
My 2020 Hyundai has this.
- yread 3y ago
  and also tells you if you look tired (and need a coffee). And it actually works pretty well
  - soco 3y ago
    My 2014 VW had this already, so really not sure what's the big breakthrough for Tesla here.
    - oblio 3y ago
      > big breakthrough for Tesla Marketing, marketing, especially to Americans. Tesla's highlighting stuff that various other car brands have and I think there's also an influx of newish drivers that just didn't check what their cars were capable of (nobody reads the manual).
- oorza 3y ago
  Ditto my 2021 Volvo, with alertness monitored as well (it pops up an adorable cup of coffee on your dash!).
  - Reason077 3y ago
    Interesting. 2023 Polestar 2 does not seem to have any real alertness monitoring. It just checks that your hands are on the steering wheel. And just like Tesla, sometimes you have to give it a little wiggle so it knows you’re paying attention! Very nice car though: excellent build quality and driving feel. Some aspects of the Google software not quite as good as Tesla’s however (but the maps/navigation are excellent, maybe even better than Tesla).
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  These work by having an always on IR camera watch the driver.
isodev 3y ago
I have trouble with the wording in this case. This would not increase the safety of autopilot but limit the usage to situations closer to the “happy path” of the system.
- InsomniacL 3y ago
  If we were talking about ensuring the driver is wearing a seatbelt, then I would agree with your point as that has no direct impact on the performance of Autopilot. However, Autopilot requires a 'fully attentive driver' to function as intended. Improving the safety features of a component required for it to function does improve the safety of Autopilot. Autopilot is a suite of driver assistance features. The driver assistance features can't assist the driver if there is no driver because they've moved to the backseat.
- enragedcacti 3y ago
  Level 2 driver assists should be measured by their safety as a complete system, which includes the driver and driver monitoring. If autopilot causes the average driver to pay less attention that is a safety issue with autopilot that should be addressed. From a technical standpoint I understand what you're saying (autopilot didn't get any better at driving), but if autopilot is causing a stochastic safety issue with driver focus then addressing that is a good thing and makes the complete system safer.
captainmuon 3y ago
So it's basically lane assist + cruise control but stops working if you look away? I'm not going to pay 7500 €/$ for that. The whole purpose of self-driving for me would be to be able to stretch my arms or do something small on my phone every now and then. I'm totally fine if the car is uber careful and drives super slow or parks on the shoulder if it is not 100% sure what to do, and I'm also fine if it says "Attention! You have to take over in 15 seconds or something bad happens." But having the option to not pay attention for a couple of minutes is the whole point of self-driving for me. Unless they get that working on the Autobahn (maybe just in good weather, no congestion, reasonable speeds) it's just a toy. Edit: meant "self-driving" as opposed to theoretical FSD.
- spdif899 3y ago
  This article and discussion are specifically regarding base autopilot, not FSD.
  - captainmuon 3y ago
    Yeah I mixed up the terms but I was talking about things like autopilot. My point was even if you don't have "door-to-door good as a human driver really fully self-driving", the main feature of self-driving is that you should be able to not pay attention for a while. Personally I'm not sure that "proper" FSD will even be possible in the near future.
    - averageRoyalty 3y ago
      That's fine. But it's not meant to be self driving, and it isn't a paid extra. You still need to be attentive, you just get to stop "operating" for a while.
matsemann 3y ago
Who picks up their phone while driving? Or looks away for a few seconds? If you're driving 80 kph and looks away for three and a half second, that's basically 80 meters of movement where you didn't see anything. Just crazy.
- balls187 3y ago
  Lots of American drivers do exactly that. I’m guilty of it.
  - jader201 3y ago
    At least you admit it, but please stop. You’re not only endangering your own life, but you’re endangering others as well. It’s one thing to do this on rare occasions to change a route on the navigation, or change a song. But for many people, being on their phone is the norm and not the exception — that’s what’s crazy.
    - balls187 3y ago
      Sorry my comment wasn’t clear, lots of Americans pick up their cellphone, as I do, and yes it’s not safe, even when done rarely.
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  Most people. Easier on Autopilot for sure and I'm quite happy it's already so naggy. Even when you ARE paying attention it would be too easy to let your mind drift away if it wasn't nagging you enough.
stetrain 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_monitoring_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_monitoring_system
adamking 3y ago
My 2023 Chevy Bolt EUV does exactly this with SuperCruise, in layers. Look away from the road for a few seconds? Visible warning. Keep looking away? Audible warning. Still looking away? SuperCruise disables, slows the vehicle to a stop, and calls OnStar.

by kbos87 3y ago

pseudocomposer 3y ago

My 2020 Hyundai has this.

yread 3y ago
and also tells you if you look tired (and need a coffee). And it actually works pretty well
- soco 3y ago
  My 2014 VW had this already, so really not sure what's the big breakthrough for Tesla here.
  - oblio 3y ago
    > big breakthrough for Tesla Marketing, marketing, especially to Americans. Tesla's highlighting stuff that various other car brands have and I think there's also an influx of newish drivers that just didn't check what their cars were capable of (nobody reads the manual).
oorza 3y ago
Ditto my 2021 Volvo, with alertness monitored as well (it pops up an adorable cup of coffee on your dash!).
- Reason077 3y ago
  Interesting. 2023 Polestar 2 does not seem to have any real alertness monitoring. It just checks that your hands are on the steering wheel. And just like Tesla, sometimes you have to give it a little wiggle so it knows you’re paying attention! Very nice car though: excellent build quality and driving feel. Some aspects of the Google software not quite as good as Tesla’s however (but the maps/navigation are excellent, maybe even better than Tesla).
mensetmanusman 3y ago
These work by having an always on IR camera watch the driver.

isodev 3y ago

I have trouble with the wording in this case. This would not increase the safety of autopilot but limit the usage to situations closer to the “happy path” of the system.

InsomniacL 3y ago
If we were talking about ensuring the driver is wearing a seatbelt, then I would agree with your point as that has no direct impact on the performance of Autopilot. However, Autopilot requires a 'fully attentive driver' to function as intended. Improving the safety features of a component required for it to function does improve the safety of Autopilot. Autopilot is a suite of driver assistance features. The driver assistance features can't assist the driver if there is no driver because they've moved to the backseat.
enragedcacti 3y ago
Level 2 driver assists should be measured by their safety as a complete system, which includes the driver and driver monitoring. If autopilot causes the average driver to pay less attention that is a safety issue with autopilot that should be addressed. From a technical standpoint I understand what you're saying (autopilot didn't get any better at driving), but if autopilot is causing a stochastic safety issue with driver focus then addressing that is a good thing and makes the complete system safer.

captainmuon 3y ago

So it's basically lane assist + cruise control but stops working if you look away? I'm not going to pay 7500 €/$ for that. The whole purpose of self-driving for me would be to be able to stretch my arms or do something small on my phone every now and then. I'm totally fine if the car is uber careful and drives super slow or parks on the shoulder if it is not 100% sure what to do, and I'm also fine if it says "Attention! You have to take over in 15 seconds or something bad happens." But having the option to not pay attention for a couple of minutes is the whole point of self-driving for me. Unless they get that working on the Autobahn (maybe just in good weather, no congestion, reasonable speeds) it's just a toy. Edit: meant "self-driving" as opposed to theoretical FSD.

spdif899 3y ago
This article and discussion are specifically regarding base autopilot, not FSD.
- captainmuon 3y ago
  Yeah I mixed up the terms but I was talking about things like autopilot. My point was even if you don't have "door-to-door good as a human driver really fully self-driving", the main feature of self-driving is that you should be able to not pay attention for a while. Personally I'm not sure that "proper" FSD will even be possible in the near future.
  - averageRoyalty 3y ago
    That's fine. But it's not meant to be self driving, and it isn't a paid extra. You still need to be attentive, you just get to stop "operating" for a while.

matsemann 3y ago

Who picks up their phone while driving? Or looks away for a few seconds? If you're driving 80 kph and looks away for three and a half second, that's basically 80 meters of movement where you didn't see anything. Just crazy.

balls187 3y ago
Lots of American drivers do exactly that. I’m guilty of it.
- jader201 3y ago
  At least you admit it, but please stop. You’re not only endangering your own life, but you’re endangering others as well. It’s one thing to do this on rare occasions to change a route on the navigation, or change a song. But for many people, being on their phone is the norm and not the exception — that’s what’s crazy.
  - balls187 3y ago
    Sorry my comment wasn’t clear, lots of Americans pick up their cellphone, as I do, and yes it’s not safe, even when done rarely.
dzhiurgis 3y ago
Most people. Easier on Autopilot for sure and I'm quite happy it's already so naggy. Even when you ARE paying attention it would be too easy to let your mind drift away if it wasn't nagging you enough.

stetrain 3y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_monitoring_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_monitoring_system

adamking 3y ago

My 2023 Chevy Bolt EUV does exactly this with SuperCruise, in layers. Look away from the road for a few seconds? Visible warning. Keep looking away? Audible warning. Still looking away? SuperCruise disables, slows the vehicle to a stop, and calls OnStar.