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What a silly thing to write. It's not a very self-improving computer system if it doesn't simplify itself, is it?

viraptor 3y ago
It depends if there's anything left to simplify. Maybe this is the optimum we'll reach between concise expression and accuracy of representation.
kbenson 3y ago
If you need an arbitrary point of reference to count time from, what's simpler, making a new one or using the existing predominant one that everything else does? Making a competing standard and then having to deal with interop between standards is not simpler or better unless there's an actual benefit to be had.
corysama 3y ago
How very human-centric of you ;) It’s not hard to imagine a program of ever increasing complexity, highly redundant, error-prone, yet also stochastically, statically, increasingly effective. The primary pushback from this would be our pathetically tiny short term memory. Blow that limitation up and complexity that seems incomprehensible to us becomes perfectly reasonable.
- saiya-jin 3y ago
  That would help for sure, but you would soon reach the limit of how much at the same time our brains can process consistently and how large mental model we can still effectively use. Situation that have 500 viewpoints and 10,000 variously interacting facts to consider won't be any more comprehensible for a mere human, short term memory limiting us or not.
jbgt 3y ago
Even smart people have an appendix!
Linosaurus 3y ago
That’s because it’s not a self-improving computer system. It’s just programming as it exists today for thousands of years.
bamboozled 3y ago
How would something grow in complexity yet get around the fact that changes would be hard to effect at scale? Was the sarcasm lost on me?
shagie 3y ago
The world of Deepness in the Sky (at that time, A Fire Upon the Deep is a very different time) doesn't have AI. It has civilizations that rise and fall every few centuries. The Qeng Ho are a trading culture that was formed to try to bind the wandering traders of the universe together into something that could stifle those collapses. This is probably strongly influenced by Foundation by Asimov. Other things are quite advanced - but computing is rather "dumb". What is there is driven by a great weight of inertia of massive software (all written by regular humans) that itself is too large to fully audit and understand. The story it tells is very much one about humans and societies.
yndoendo 3y ago
Simplification is only accessible when understanding all systems are complex. Meaning, to simplify is just the ability to break down complexity into smaller parts. We do this through categorization. For example, integrated circuits can be broken down into simplistic AND, OR, XOR, NOR, NAND, X OR, and NOt gates. Yet tying those together creates usable components such as Wifi radios and manufacturing automation. Over simplification are concepts that lack understanding of complex systems. These are exploited by politicians. For example, deregulation will help drive the economy. Yet regulations have been proven to assist the economy long term by preventing the next variation of thalidomide. The panacea drug of the 1950s and 1960s that killed their users or caused massive birth defects.

It depends if there's anything left to simplify. Maybe this is the optimum we'll reach between concise expression and accuracy of representation.

kbenson 3y ago

If you need an arbitrary point of reference to count time from, what's simpler, making a new one or using the existing predominant one that everything else does? Making a competing standard and then having to deal with interop between standards is not simpler or better unless there's an actual benefit to be had.

corysama 3y ago

How very human-centric of you ;) It’s not hard to imagine a program of ever increasing complexity, highly redundant, error-prone, yet also stochastically, statically, increasingly effective. The primary pushback from this would be our pathetically tiny short term memory. Blow that limitation up and complexity that seems incomprehensible to us becomes perfectly reasonable.

saiya-jin 3y ago
That would help for sure, but you would soon reach the limit of how much at the same time our brains can process consistently and how large mental model we can still effectively use. Situation that have 500 viewpoints and 10,000 variously interacting facts to consider won't be any more comprehensible for a mere human, short term memory limiting us or not.

jbgt 3y ago

Even smart people have an appendix!

Linosaurus 3y ago

That’s because it’s not a self-improving computer system. It’s just programming as it exists today for thousands of years.

bamboozled 3y ago

How would something grow in complexity yet get around the fact that changes would be hard to effect at scale? Was the sarcasm lost on me?

shagie 3y ago

The world of Deepness in the Sky (at that time, A Fire Upon the Deep is a very different time) doesn't have AI. It has civilizations that rise and fall every few centuries. The Qeng Ho are a trading culture that was formed to try to bind the wandering traders of the universe together into something that could stifle those collapses. This is probably strongly influenced by Foundation by Asimov. Other things are quite advanced - but computing is rather "dumb". What is there is driven by a great weight of inertia of massive software (all written by regular humans) that itself is too large to fully audit and understand. The story it tells is very much one about humans and societies.

yndoendo 3y ago

Simplification is only accessible when understanding all systems are complex. Meaning, to simplify is just the ability to break down complexity into smaller parts. We do this through categorization. For example, integrated circuits can be broken down into simplistic AND, OR, XOR, NOR, NAND, X OR, and NOt gates. Yet tying those together creates usable components such as Wifi radios and manufacturing automation. Over simplification are concepts that lack understanding of complex systems. These are exploited by politicians. For example, deregulation will help drive the economy. Yet regulations have been proven to assist the economy long term by preventing the next variation of thalidomide. The panacea drug of the 1950s and 1960s that killed their users or caused massive birth defects.