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The article has a haunting picture. The caption reads: Nazi storm troopers enforce a boycott of a Jewish-owned department store, Berlin, 1933. The sign reads,

The article has a haunting picture. The caption reads: Nazi storm troopers enforce a boycott of a Jewish-owned department store, Berlin, 1933. The sign reads, "Germans! Defend yourselves! Don’t buy from Jews!" Courtesy of the Bundesarchiv via Wikimedia Advocates of hateful free speech should take note about the dangers of something taken too far.

zmgsabst 3y ago
Was the source of that sign in 1933 free speech? — or the effect of a central authority who controlled the media? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Nazi_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Nazi_Germany When you say “taken too far”, the outcome certainly was a fascist state with totalitarian control of media; how would staunchly defending freedom and decentralized control lead to that?
- sidlls 3y ago
  How do you suppose the central authority gained that control in the first place? They fomented this exact sort of "hate of the Other" to whip a certain kind of person into a fearful frenzy. Trump's doing the same thing today with MAGA. Trump-era USA is Germany during the late 20s and 30s.
  - Daz1 3y ago
    Meds
  - hattmall 3y ago
    Jfc, Trump is literally the one being prosecuted by a regime that took control through fear, force, and deceit. Yet somehow even though he is very visibly being subjected to a barrage of transparently meaningless political prosecutions you somehow still fear him as a fascist. So who exactly has been "whipped into a frenzy here?" Who are Trump supporters fearful of, other than the government that is actively attacking them?
    - kennywinker 3y ago
      Well, "migrant caravans at the southern border" for a start. And if you're having a hard time figuring out who the proto-fascists are, look for the ones who don't respect free and fair election results, and look for the ones who try to make it harder for people to vote.
    - drewm1980 3y ago
      Poor, persecuted, POTUS? He led an attack on the capitol to try to overturn his loss in the election. The "meaningless political prosecutions" you refer to is the legal system failing to function at a basic level and throw him in jail for sedition, and yes, it is frustrating and scary for the rest of the free world.
    - pstuart 3y ago
      He's being prosecuted for crimes, some of which preceded his time in office. I'm sure you have strong feelings about a certain laptop and prosecuting the alleged crimes attributed to it? You need to at least be consistent with your complaints.
    - pineaux 3y ago
      You know which famous fascist also got persecuted (and jail time) for a failed coup before he took power years later? You get 0 guesses.
    - sidlls 3y ago
      Who are Trump supporters fearful of, other than the government that is actively attacking them? People who aren't white, people who aren't straight, people who are transgender, people who aren't Christian extremists, people who don't think the government is a giant ball of evil incarnate, etc. Trump literally tried to overthrow the government in 2020. This isn't debatable: it's a fact. In any sane, functioning democracy, he'd be jailed already. It's scary that such a large fraction of this country fears and hates everyone else so much, and this country so much, that they'd be willing to use violence to overthrow it and install a dictator.
      - hattmall 3y ago
- jameshart 3y ago
  The people holding the signs are members of the SA - that is, members of the paramilitary wing of the Nazi Party, not state employees or members of the military. This was taken in April 1933, when Hitler had been chancellor for a little over 8 weeks, just one week after the 'Enabling Act' had been passed. What this picture shows is actually the very process of the shift from 'just a bunch of thuggish party supporters chanting slogans' (free speech) to 'the thugs who the cops won't stop are now indistinguishable from state authority' (fascism). Not sure what it has to do with 'control of the media'. The person who took the photograph was likely part of the media.
  - mcosta 3y ago
    > the thugs who the cops won't stop are now indistinguishable from state authority Yeah! I remember when these thugs took mayor chunks of cities and fired some police stations and politicians refused to move a finger.
- MichaelMoser123 3y ago
  still the Nazi party was part of the political process in the Weimar Republic, prior to taking power. Back then there was no objection to their genocidal ideology, as it was regarded as 'free speech'. Actually this historical precedent is the reason for the stricter rules on expression in the Germany of the present.
ralfd 3y ago
I want to repeat the sibling comments claim that this doesn't show the pitfall of free speech, but the opposite as this was organized top-down state propaganda. In fact sadly the *lack of free* speech made it impossible to criticize this boycott and following ever tightening restrictions. That said: The question if "calling for the genocide of Jews" violates Harvard's rules on bullying and harassment or is acceptable speech is still ongoing and left to the reader. /s
pdonis 3y ago
Advocating a boycott of a store is free speech. Enforcing it, by physically preventing people from entering the store, not so much.

zmgsabst 3y ago

Was the source of that sign in 1933 free speech? — or the effect of a central authority who controlled the media? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Nazi_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Nazi_Germany When you say “taken too far”, the outcome certainly was a fascist state with totalitarian control of media; how would staunchly defending freedom and decentralized control lead to that?

sidlls 3y ago
How do you suppose the central authority gained that control in the first place? They fomented this exact sort of "hate of the Other" to whip a certain kind of person into a fearful frenzy. Trump's doing the same thing today with MAGA. Trump-era USA is Germany during the late 20s and 30s.
- Daz1 3y ago
  Meds
- hattmall 3y ago
  Jfc, Trump is literally the one being prosecuted by a regime that took control through fear, force, and deceit. Yet somehow even though he is very visibly being subjected to a barrage of transparently meaningless political prosecutions you somehow still fear him as a fascist. So who exactly has been "whipped into a frenzy here?" Who are Trump supporters fearful of, other than the government that is actively attacking them?
  - kennywinker 3y ago
    Well, "migrant caravans at the southern border" for a start. And if you're having a hard time figuring out who the proto-fascists are, look for the ones who don't respect free and fair election results, and look for the ones who try to make it harder for people to vote.
  - drewm1980 3y ago
    Poor, persecuted, POTUS? He led an attack on the capitol to try to overturn his loss in the election. The "meaningless political prosecutions" you refer to is the legal system failing to function at a basic level and throw him in jail for sedition, and yes, it is frustrating and scary for the rest of the free world.
  - pstuart 3y ago
    He's being prosecuted for crimes, some of which preceded his time in office. I'm sure you have strong feelings about a certain laptop and prosecuting the alleged crimes attributed to it? You need to at least be consistent with your complaints.
  - pineaux 3y ago
    You know which famous fascist also got persecuted (and jail time) for a failed coup before he took power years later? You get 0 guesses.
  - sidlls 3y ago
    Who are Trump supporters fearful of, other than the government that is actively attacking them? People who aren't white, people who aren't straight, people who are transgender, people who aren't Christian extremists, people who don't think the government is a giant ball of evil incarnate, etc. Trump literally tried to overthrow the government in 2020. This isn't debatable: it's a fact. In any sane, functioning democracy, he'd be jailed already. It's scary that such a large fraction of this country fears and hates everyone else so much, and this country so much, that they'd be willing to use violence to overthrow it and install a dictator.
    - hattmall 3y ago
jameshart 3y ago
The people holding the signs are members of the SA - that is, members of the paramilitary wing of the Nazi Party, not state employees or members of the military. This was taken in April 1933, when Hitler had been chancellor for a little over 8 weeks, just one week after the 'Enabling Act' had been passed. What this picture shows is actually the very process of the shift from 'just a bunch of thuggish party supporters chanting slogans' (free speech) to 'the thugs who the cops won't stop are now indistinguishable from state authority' (fascism). Not sure what it has to do with 'control of the media'. The person who took the photograph was likely part of the media.
- mcosta 3y ago
  > the thugs who the cops won't stop are now indistinguishable from state authority Yeah! I remember when these thugs took mayor chunks of cities and fired some police stations and politicians refused to move a finger.
MichaelMoser123 3y ago
still the Nazi party was part of the political process in the Weimar Republic, prior to taking power. Back then there was no objection to their genocidal ideology, as it was regarded as 'free speech'. Actually this historical precedent is the reason for the stricter rules on expression in the Germany of the present.

ralfd 3y ago

I want to repeat the sibling comments claim that this doesn't show the pitfall of free speech, but the opposite as this was organized top-down state propaganda. In fact sadly the *lack of free* speech made it impossible to criticize this boycott and following ever tightening restrictions. That said: The question if "calling for the genocide of Jews" violates Harvard's rules on bullying and harassment or is acceptable speech is still ongoing and left to the reader. /s

pdonis 3y ago

Advocating a boycott of a store is free speech. Enforcing it, by physically preventing people from entering the store, not so much.