4 ms·

They were constantly either hunting, foraging, fighting, or roaming. Is that your idea of "living life"?

GrumpySloth 3y ago
Yes? Spend a day endlessly walking (roaming), searching in the forest for berries, mushrooms etc., doing hand-to-hand combat, hunting... Spend a day in front of a computer. Which one do you think will end in a feeling of happiness?
- hef19898 3y ago
  The one where nobody of my family starves in winter because I failed to send that last e-mail of the day?
- slothtrop 3y ago
  The one I'm living. > Spend a day endlessly walking (roaming) We can already do that at leisure, but most would not care to go a whole day (let alone every day) trudging around by necessity. > searching in the forest for berries, mushrooms etc You seem to be framing the search for food as a low-stakes endeavor. > doing hand-to-hand combat Between tribes (or even within your own), it can easily be more fatal than that. Not only are you worried about calories, you're also concerned about not being outright murdered.
  - GrumpySloth 3y ago
    > We can already do that at leisure, but most would not care to go a whole day (let alone every day) trudging around by necessity. We can do that at best 2/7 days a week. In reality, modern life forces us to dedicate even less time to that. I've done that many times. The feeling at the end of the day is always unlike any other. Wouldn't swap those experiences for anything else. > You seem to be framing the search for food as a low-stakes endeavor. Have you ever picked mushrooms? Do you know how little time it takes to get enough mushrooms for weeks to come? And then how much meat there is in a deer? I agree that the risk of being murdered is higher. Although I think you overestimate the frequency of encounters. There weren't a lot of people back then on Earth. I also don't think this decreases happiness all that much. The slow senseless willowing away in an office everyday seems like a much less happy existence, even if it's a longer one.
    - Cthulhu_ 3y ago
      > In reality, modern life forces us to dedicate even less time to that. That's ultimately a choice. Nobody is making you work, however, if you want a certain standard of living and a location it's one way to raise the funds to do so. Personally, I choose to work 9-5 and live comfortably, safely and predictably, and I don't much care for long walks or whatever.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago
  Now spend 3 months doing that. And there are no do overs. If you break your leg, you’re dead If you have a tooth infection, hope it doesn’t spread to your blood if you get attacked by a wild animal, hope you can survive your wounds If someone stronger comes and rapes you or your loved ones, maybe you can gather your buddies together for a revenge attack.
- isaacremuant 3y ago
  Hahahaha. You can't be serious. Hand to hand combat? Just because you're depressed doesn't mean you have to bend reality to pretend "hunter gatherers had it best". Hell, no one is forcing you to use work with a computer. There's many avenues to do a more "in line with nature life". But I suspect you want your internet and amenities and all that jazz.
- 31carmichael 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - dang 3y ago
    Can you please not break the site guidelines like this? We have to ban accounts that do. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
AlotOfReading 3y ago
The vast, vast majority of time for modern foragers is spent either getting resources or doing various things around camp (e.g. making tools, socializing). That sounds extremely typical for most people, yes.
- slothtrop 3y ago
  Modern traditional societies are not equivalent to original hunter-gatherer societies who did not have the same tools and skill sets. Notwithstanding, creating tools and arranging supplies is work. But the banality of this is that people spend plenty of time socializing at work today, in office or elsewhere. It's not like we stopped doing that. Are we going to start putting double quotes around the "work" that we do because of idle chat? Work is good for us. Some jobs are just not as good as others.
  - AlotOfReading 3y ago
    Yes, doing light work and socializing aren't mutually exclusive activities, but that's not my point. You can just sit around shooting the shit, with various people doing different tasks and some just relaxing. Time budgets separate these, but I'm deliberately avoiding trying to summarize those except in the broadest possible sense. I have another comment in this thread giving examples of how modern and ancient foragers differ.
hutzlibu 3y ago
"All in all, the research suggests, hunter-gatherer adults spent an average of 30 to 40 hours per week on all subsistence-related activities combined, which is considerably less than the workweek of the typical modern American, if the American’s 40 or more hours of paid employment is added to the hours spent on domestic chores."

Yes? Spend a day endlessly walking (roaming), searching in the forest for berries, mushrooms etc., doing hand-to-hand combat, hunting... Spend a day in front of a computer. Which one do you think will end in a feeling of happiness?

hef19898 3y ago
The one where nobody of my family starves in winter because I failed to send that last e-mail of the day?
slothtrop 3y ago
The one I'm living. > Spend a day endlessly walking (roaming) We can already do that at leisure, but most would not care to go a whole day (let alone every day) trudging around by necessity. > searching in the forest for berries, mushrooms etc You seem to be framing the search for food as a low-stakes endeavor. > doing hand-to-hand combat Between tribes (or even within your own), it can easily be more fatal than that. Not only are you worried about calories, you're also concerned about not being outright murdered.
- GrumpySloth 3y ago
  > We can already do that at leisure, but most would not care to go a whole day (let alone every day) trudging around by necessity. We can do that at best 2/7 days a week. In reality, modern life forces us to dedicate even less time to that. I've done that many times. The feeling at the end of the day is always unlike any other. Wouldn't swap those experiences for anything else. > You seem to be framing the search for food as a low-stakes endeavor. Have you ever picked mushrooms? Do you know how little time it takes to get enough mushrooms for weeks to come? And then how much meat there is in a deer? I agree that the risk of being murdered is higher. Although I think you overestimate the frequency of encounters. There weren't a lot of people back then on Earth. I also don't think this decreases happiness all that much. The slow senseless willowing away in an office everyday seems like a much less happy existence, even if it's a longer one.
  - Cthulhu_ 3y ago
    > In reality, modern life forces us to dedicate even less time to that. That's ultimately a choice. Nobody is making you work, however, if you want a certain standard of living and a location it's one way to raise the funds to do so. Personally, I choose to work 9-5 and live comfortably, safely and predictably, and I don't much care for long walks or whatever.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago
Now spend 3 months doing that. And there are no do overs. If you break your leg, you’re dead If you have a tooth infection, hope it doesn’t spread to your blood if you get attacked by a wild animal, hope you can survive your wounds If someone stronger comes and rapes you or your loved ones, maybe you can gather your buddies together for a revenge attack.
isaacremuant 3y ago
Hahahaha. You can't be serious. Hand to hand combat? Just because you're depressed doesn't mean you have to bend reality to pretend "hunter gatherers had it best". Hell, no one is forcing you to use work with a computer. There's many avenues to do a more "in line with nature life". But I suspect you want your internet and amenities and all that jazz.
31carmichael 3y ago
[flagged]
- dang 3y ago
  Can you please not break the site guidelines like this? We have to ban accounts that do. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

AlotOfReading 3y ago

The vast, vast majority of time for modern foragers is spent either getting resources or doing various things around camp (e.g. making tools, socializing). That sounds extremely typical for most people, yes.

slothtrop 3y ago
Modern traditional societies are not equivalent to original hunter-gatherer societies who did not have the same tools and skill sets. Notwithstanding, creating tools and arranging supplies is work. But the banality of this is that people spend plenty of time socializing at work today, in office or elsewhere. It's not like we stopped doing that. Are we going to start putting double quotes around the "work" that we do because of idle chat? Work is good for us. Some jobs are just not as good as others.
- AlotOfReading 3y ago
  Yes, doing light work and socializing aren't mutually exclusive activities, but that's not my point. You can just sit around shooting the shit, with various people doing different tasks and some just relaxing. Time budgets separate these, but I'm deliberately avoiding trying to summarize those except in the broadest possible sense. I have another comment in this thread giving examples of how modern and ancient foragers differ.

hutzlibu 3y ago

"All in all, the research suggests, hunter-gatherer adults spent an average of 30 to 40 hours per week on all subsistence-related activities combined, which is considerably less than the workweek of the typical modern American, if the American’s 40 or more hours of paid employment is added to the hours spent on domestic chores."