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what are some recent examples of governments giving up power?

Der_Einzige 3y ago
Didn’t you see the Portland Oregon thread earlier? Oregon has done a ton to legalize drugs, muzzle the police (can’t pull people over for ghetto cars anymore as one small example), and generally reduce the amount of power that the government has over your day to day life. Ron wyden tries every day to reduce mass surveillance and similar risks for Oregonians You do get governments willing to give up power if you elect progressive democrats or libertarians. Republicans lie hardcore about wanting to do this though. Republicans used to be the party of federalism, now they’re the party of “unitary executive theory” Anyone with the idea that governments never give up power is so pathetically unobservant that I honestly don’t want them voting in our elections.
- tastyfreeze 3y ago
  Interesting that you have a carve out for progressive democrats but all Republicans are bad. There are "unitary executive theory" camps in both parties. Seems to be a more dominant idea in the Democrat party than Republican from my view. Democrats vote as a block on almost every bill in congress. Democrats have also been behind most expansions to executive power in the last 100 years.
  - yunwal 3y ago
    They also carved out an exception for libertarians, which in the US are basically all republican.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> what are some recent examples of governments giving up power? I’ll pick a negative one: antitrust. Government retreated from its enforcement duty and powers for a few decades. In the vacuum, private interests asserted themselves.
- todd-davies 3y ago
  Great example. Another one is state governments joining a union or federal system, such as US states joining the Union or European states joining the EU, and becoming bound by federal/EU law.
  - logicchains 3y ago
    >such as US states joining the Union This doesn't really count as freely joining, since half of them were forced to join by a bloody war.
    - soco 3y ago
      Let's not forget that other half joined freely a different union. So the argument doesn't change at all.
    - KMag 3y ago
      > This doesn't really count as freely joining, since half of them were forced to join by a bloody war. In the South, do they generally consider themselves as forced to re-join the Union, rather than having been forcefully prevented from leaving?
      - madamelic 3y ago
        > In the South, do they generally consider themselves as forced to re-join the Union, rather than having been forcefully prevented from leaving? I don't think it is revisionism and maybe I am wrong on this, but wasn't it the Confederacy who attacked the Union at Fort Sumter which kicked off the US Civil War? It's my understanding the Union was more or less ambivalent to the Confederacy and figured they'd let things lie then the Confederacy attacked. I don't know enough history to say whether the Confederacy was forced to re-join or whether the states asked to rejoin in light of their government collapsing (Davis fleeing Richmond, etc). My guess would be that it was more of a failed state situation where the US had dibs on propping it back up.
  - Xeoncross 3y ago
WendyTheWillow 3y ago
https://legiscan.com/US/legislation?status=passed https://legiscan.com/US/legislation?status=passed A few times this year in the US at the federal level, for starters. One could argue that every peaceful transition of power is the current government giving up power to the next government. Even Roe v. Wade was a “giving up” of power by the federal government to guarantee a right to abortion nationally.
- AlwaysRock 3y ago
  Does revoking a previous ruling really count as giving up power? The government had the power to say this is banned. They still have the power to say this isnt banned. It doesnt seem like any power has been lost. They just decided to use it in another way. They could change the decision tomorrow. That wouldnt be any more or less power. They are still using it to enforce their rulings.
  - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
    Yes, removing a limitation counts as giving up power.
    - AlwaysRock 3y ago
      But they havnt given anything up. They changed their ruling. They can change it again and have that, “power” again. The power isnt the limitation. It's the ability to implement or remove a limitation. They havnt given that up.
      - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
        They gave up the power to forcibly allow abortions. The "government" doesn't operate as a monolith, the executive branch now cannot universally do pro-choice related things.
local_crmdgeon 3y ago
YIMBY reforms Weed legalization (NYS doesn't count) Gun laws
- vGPU 3y ago
  Weed legalization is just trading of one authority for another. The government expects to be able to exercise their revenue collection authority over it in exchange for their authority to ban it.
  - local_crmdgeon 3y ago
    That's true in the no-homegrow states, but it's a significant new set of entitlements. Also, the gun stuff is a huge win for reduction in state power.
dahart 3y ago
> what are some recent examples of governments giving up power? We have a whole category for it in the US and one of the two major parties devoted to it: Deregulation.
- TheRealDunkirk 3y ago
  Boy, they got you good! There's no such thing as "deregulation." There's only rearranging regulation to protect the incumbents against competitors which would try to arise in an actual capitalistic system.
  - dahart 3y ago
    It sounds like you’re joking, but I can’t tell. Of course, there is such a thing as deregulation, it has a definition and history that doesn’t match your operative word choice of “rearranging”. To your point, I have no doubt that some deregulation has been spin for regulatory capture and/or anti-competitive behavior. Unfortunately, perhaps especially for the environment, that’s not an accurate summary of all deregulation, nor of the US conservative party’s official stance on regulation.
2devnull 3y ago
The border.

Didn’t you see the Portland Oregon thread earlier? Oregon has done a ton to legalize drugs, muzzle the police (can’t pull people over for ghetto cars anymore as one small example), and generally reduce the amount of power that the government has over your day to day life. Ron wyden tries every day to reduce mass surveillance and similar risks for Oregonians You do get governments willing to give up power if you elect progressive democrats or libertarians. Republicans lie hardcore about wanting to do this though. Republicans used to be the party of federalism, now they’re the party of “unitary executive theory” Anyone with the idea that governments never give up power is so pathetically unobservant that I honestly don’t want them voting in our elections.

tastyfreeze 3y ago
Interesting that you have a carve out for progressive democrats but all Republicans are bad. There are "unitary executive theory" camps in both parties. Seems to be a more dominant idea in the Democrat party than Republican from my view. Democrats vote as a block on almost every bill in congress. Democrats have also been behind most expansions to executive power in the last 100 years.
- yunwal 3y ago
  They also carved out an exception for libertarians, which in the US are basically all republican.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> what are some recent examples of governments giving up power? I’ll pick a negative one: antitrust. Government retreated from its enforcement duty and powers for a few decades. In the vacuum, private interests asserted themselves.

todd-davies 3y ago
Great example. Another one is state governments joining a union or federal system, such as US states joining the Union or European states joining the EU, and becoming bound by federal/EU law.
- logicchains 3y ago
  >such as US states joining the Union This doesn't really count as freely joining, since half of them were forced to join by a bloody war.
  - soco 3y ago
    Let's not forget that other half joined freely a different union. So the argument doesn't change at all.
  - KMag 3y ago
    > This doesn't really count as freely joining, since half of them were forced to join by a bloody war. In the South, do they generally consider themselves as forced to re-join the Union, rather than having been forcefully prevented from leaving?
    - madamelic 3y ago
      > In the South, do they generally consider themselves as forced to re-join the Union, rather than having been forcefully prevented from leaving? I don't think it is revisionism and maybe I am wrong on this, but wasn't it the Confederacy who attacked the Union at Fort Sumter which kicked off the US Civil War? It's my understanding the Union was more or less ambivalent to the Confederacy and figured they'd let things lie then the Confederacy attacked. I don't know enough history to say whether the Confederacy was forced to re-join or whether the states asked to rejoin in light of their government collapsing (Davis fleeing Richmond, etc). My guess would be that it was more of a failed state situation where the US had dibs on propping it back up.
- Xeoncross 3y ago

WendyTheWillow 3y ago

https://legiscan.com/US/legislation?status=passed https://legiscan.com/US/legislation?status=passed A few times this year in the US at the federal level, for starters. One could argue that every peaceful transition of power is the current government giving up power to the next government. Even Roe v. Wade was a “giving up” of power by the federal government to guarantee a right to abortion nationally.

AlwaysRock 3y ago
Does revoking a previous ruling really count as giving up power? The government had the power to say this is banned. They still have the power to say this isnt banned. It doesnt seem like any power has been lost. They just decided to use it in another way. They could change the decision tomorrow. That wouldnt be any more or less power. They are still using it to enforce their rulings.
- WendyTheWillow 3y ago
  Yes, removing a limitation counts as giving up power.
  - AlwaysRock 3y ago
    But they havnt given anything up. They changed their ruling. They can change it again and have that, “power” again. The power isnt the limitation. It's the ability to implement or remove a limitation. They havnt given that up.
    - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
      They gave up the power to forcibly allow abortions. The "government" doesn't operate as a monolith, the executive branch now cannot universally do pro-choice related things.

local_crmdgeon 3y ago

YIMBY reforms Weed legalization (NYS doesn't count) Gun laws

vGPU 3y ago
Weed legalization is just trading of one authority for another. The government expects to be able to exercise their revenue collection authority over it in exchange for their authority to ban it.
- local_crmdgeon 3y ago
  That's true in the no-homegrow states, but it's a significant new set of entitlements. Also, the gun stuff is a huge win for reduction in state power.

dahart 3y ago

> what are some recent examples of governments giving up power? We have a whole category for it in the US and one of the two major parties devoted to it: Deregulation.

TheRealDunkirk 3y ago
Boy, they got you good! There's no such thing as "deregulation." There's only rearranging regulation to protect the incumbents against competitors which would try to arise in an actual capitalistic system.
- dahart 3y ago
  It sounds like you’re joking, but I can’t tell. Of course, there is such a thing as deregulation, it has a definition and history that doesn’t match your operative word choice of “rearranging”. To your point, I have no doubt that some deregulation has been spin for regulatory capture and/or anti-competitive behavior. Unfortunately, perhaps especially for the environment, that’s not an accurate summary of all deregulation, nor of the US conservative party’s official stance on regulation.

2devnull 3y ago

The border.