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What I never understood is how Republicans can be for one type of abortion say before 6 weeks but not for 15 weeks? What is their rationale? If Bible says that

What I never understood is how Republicans can be for one type of abortion say before 6 weeks but not for 15 weeks? What is their rationale? If Bible says that abortion is murder, and life begins at conception, then how can they allow abortion at 6 weeks and vote for that?

nl 3y ago
It's because this lets them perform lipservice to respecting women's rights and not being a theocracy.
saghm 3y ago
The bible doesn't say anything at all about abortion. It wouldn't matter if it did though, because they have no problem ignoring plenty of things that actually are in it when it would conflict with political success.
- AndrewKemendo 3y ago
  Untrue. Numbers 5 gives a process for distilling a “bitter water” and circumstance under which to induce an abortion with said water. In case you’re curious it’s simply if a husband has “a jealousy” and fear that his wife has “laid with another man.”
  - galaxyLogic 3y ago
    Amazing. So Bible says abortion is ok, if the husband is jealous. (Numbers 5). Why don't these anti-choice people read their Bible.
- talentedcoin 3y ago
  “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” — Jeremiah 1:5
  - saghm 3y ago
    If anything, that sounds like it's saying life begins _before_ conception, not at conception. By that logic, it's also murder to wear a condom or pull out
    - galaxyLogic 3y ago
      > life begins _before_ conception In other words reincarnation. In a way we were set up before birth as said by Jeremiah above, because our DNA existed before we became the fertilized egg. Our DNA was in two parts which were then combined by the act of conception.
    - talentedcoin 3y ago
      Correct
StewardMcOy 3y ago
This is a tangent within a tangent, but it's basically a political strategy. Abortion bans are deeply unpopular, even in many Republican-majority states. By framing it "after six weeks", they're attempting to project the image that they're the reasonable ones. After all, women would have had six whole weeks to make up their mind! And it will allow an escape hatch for women in rape or incest situations. As a practical matter, they know that many women won't realize they're pregnant until it's too late to feasibly schedule the procedure. They're minimizing the number of abortions while moving what the American public sees as reasonable from 24 weeks to 6. Once everyone's used to six, they can reduce it even more.
- whatshisface 3y ago
  Why are politicians trying to pass a law that is, "deeply unpopular?" Do they want to lose elections, or something?
  - haswell 3y ago
    The religious beliefs that underlie these laws are the driving force. The people who hold these beliefs see the political system as a means to an end, and future losses do not matter if the goal is reached. I grew up in an ultra conservative religious community, and as a kid, stuffed envelopes for a pro-life candidate’s campaign without fully understanding what it was I was doing, because I was a kid. I’ve seen the mindset up close, and it’s very worrisome. Do think it’s ultimately short sighted because of the likely pendulum swing. But there is certainly a lot of damage to be done before that happens.
    - heap_perms 3y ago
      Interesting. Coming from a progressive european coutry, this sounds outrageously absurd. The idea of enacting laws based on the bible seems not just archaic but almost surreal. Are they stuck in the middle ages?
      - haswell 3y ago
jimbob45 3y ago
There's a large sect that believes that abortion should never be performed. However, the vast majority understands the pragmatism behind the six week restriction: forcing women to carry rape/incest/coerced babies incentivizes the raping/incesting/coercing parties to do so knowing that their actions will pay off. Allowing abortion before six weeks dissuades such behavior.
- CobrastanJorji 3y ago
  More practically, it allows you to claim what Jimbo here is describing without any practical loss. At two weeks pregnant, you likely haven't even had sex yet. A pregnancy test might not be positive until week five or so, and there are only a couple of abortion clinics in conservative states, so you've potentially got a window of just a couple of days between finding that you need one and getting one. So a six week ban is more of a PR move than an actual thing that people believe in.
rpmisms 3y ago
Because Republicans are trying to curry favor with everyone. Hard-liners like myself believe that abortion at any stage is morally equivalent to homicide—only acceptable if the life of the mother is also at risk. The 6 week ban doesn't actually solve the problem, just delivers a pyrrhic victory to win votes.
- galaxyLogic 3y ago
  > abortion at any stage is morally equivalent to homicide One way to look at it is that killing millions of people is NOT morally equivalent to killing 1 person. Is it? Similarly killing 100 cells of a just fertilized egg is not morally equivalent to killing a born person with 30 trillion cells. https://www.healthline.com/health/number-of-cells-in-body https://www.healthline.com/health/number-of-cells-in-body
ralfd 3y ago
But that argument goes both ways? Why should abortion be legal at 9 month but killing a born infant being one day older is murder? And if it is not then what is the cutoff point? The previous schelling point of viability (which was moved earlier over time by medical progress) also is unconvincing. Time limits can be a pragmatic and tested solution. I think most European countries use 12 to 15 weeks.
- galaxyLogic 3y ago
  Time limits make sense and EVERYBODY agrees they are a good thing. But if you want a shorter time-limit you should give a good rationale for it. Why you want it 6 weeks but not 1 week? Whereas those who didn't propose any change to Roe vs. Wade do not really need a reason for NOT making a change. There must be a reason when we make or try to make a change.

nl 3y ago

It's because this lets them perform lipservice to respecting women's rights and not being a theocracy.

saghm 3y ago

The bible doesn't say anything at all about abortion. It wouldn't matter if it did though, because they have no problem ignoring plenty of things that actually are in it when it would conflict with political success.

AndrewKemendo 3y ago
Untrue. Numbers 5 gives a process for distilling a “bitter water” and circumstance under which to induce an abortion with said water. In case you’re curious it’s simply if a husband has “a jealousy” and fear that his wife has “laid with another man.”
- galaxyLogic 3y ago
  Amazing. So Bible says abortion is ok, if the husband is jealous. (Numbers 5). Why don't these anti-choice people read their Bible.
talentedcoin 3y ago
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” — Jeremiah 1:5
- saghm 3y ago
  If anything, that sounds like it's saying life begins _before_ conception, not at conception. By that logic, it's also murder to wear a condom or pull out
  - galaxyLogic 3y ago
    > life begins _before_ conception In other words reincarnation. In a way we were set up before birth as said by Jeremiah above, because our DNA existed before we became the fertilized egg. Our DNA was in two parts which were then combined by the act of conception.
  - talentedcoin 3y ago
    Correct

StewardMcOy 3y ago

This is a tangent within a tangent, but it's basically a political strategy. Abortion bans are deeply unpopular, even in many Republican-majority states. By framing it "after six weeks", they're attempting to project the image that they're the reasonable ones. After all, women would have had six whole weeks to make up their mind! And it will allow an escape hatch for women in rape or incest situations. As a practical matter, they know that many women won't realize they're pregnant until it's too late to feasibly schedule the procedure. They're minimizing the number of abortions while moving what the American public sees as reasonable from 24 weeks to 6. Once everyone's used to six, they can reduce it even more.

whatshisface 3y ago
Why are politicians trying to pass a law that is, "deeply unpopular?" Do they want to lose elections, or something?
- haswell 3y ago
  The religious beliefs that underlie these laws are the driving force. The people who hold these beliefs see the political system as a means to an end, and future losses do not matter if the goal is reached. I grew up in an ultra conservative religious community, and as a kid, stuffed envelopes for a pro-life candidate’s campaign without fully understanding what it was I was doing, because I was a kid. I’ve seen the mindset up close, and it’s very worrisome. Do think it’s ultimately short sighted because of the likely pendulum swing. But there is certainly a lot of damage to be done before that happens.
  - heap_perms 3y ago
    Interesting. Coming from a progressive european coutry, this sounds outrageously absurd. The idea of enacting laws based on the bible seems not just archaic but almost surreal. Are they stuck in the middle ages?
    - haswell 3y ago

jimbob45 3y ago

There's a large sect that believes that abortion should never be performed. However, the vast majority understands the pragmatism behind the six week restriction: forcing women to carry rape/incest/coerced babies incentivizes the raping/incesting/coercing parties to do so knowing that their actions will pay off. Allowing abortion before six weeks dissuades such behavior.

CobrastanJorji 3y ago
More practically, it allows you to claim what Jimbo here is describing without any practical loss. At two weeks pregnant, you likely haven't even had sex yet. A pregnancy test might not be positive until week five or so, and there are only a couple of abortion clinics in conservative states, so you've potentially got a window of just a couple of days between finding that you need one and getting one. So a six week ban is more of a PR move than an actual thing that people believe in.

rpmisms 3y ago

Because Republicans are trying to curry favor with everyone. Hard-liners like myself believe that abortion at any stage is morally equivalent to homicide—only acceptable if the life of the mother is also at risk. The 6 week ban doesn't actually solve the problem, just delivers a pyrrhic victory to win votes.

galaxyLogic 3y ago
> abortion at any stage is morally equivalent to homicide One way to look at it is that killing millions of people is NOT morally equivalent to killing 1 person. Is it? Similarly killing 100 cells of a just fertilized egg is not morally equivalent to killing a born person with 30 trillion cells. https://www.healthline.com/health/number-of-cells-in-body https://www.healthline.com/health/number-of-cells-in-body

ralfd 3y ago

But that argument goes both ways? Why should abortion be legal at 9 month but killing a born infant being one day older is murder? And if it is not then what is the cutoff point? The previous schelling point of viability (which was moved earlier over time by medical progress) also is unconvincing. Time limits can be a pragmatic and tested solution. I think most European countries use 12 to 15 weeks.

galaxyLogic 3y ago
Time limits make sense and EVERYBODY agrees they are a good thing. But if you want a shorter time-limit you should give a good rationale for it. Why you want it 6 weeks but not 1 week? Whereas those who didn't propose any change to Roe vs. Wade do not really need a reason for NOT making a change. There must be a reason when we make or try to make a change.