4 ms·

I don't think stores have an obligation to carry your products, it isn't like supermarkets are breaking the law because they don't have an open-door policy on p

I don't think stores have an obligation to carry your products, it isn't like supermarkets are breaking the law because they don't have an open-door policy on products. You don't have some intrinsic legal right to use someone else's infrastructure to sell your own stuff, on your terms. Framing this as a legal or ethical issue leaves me cold, when the reality is just... you'd PREFER higher margins. I get it! I'm not saying that's wrong, it just isn't a legally enshrined right.

Wowfunhappy 3y ago
> I don't think stores have an obligation to carry your products, it isn't like supermarkets are breaking the law because they don't have an open-door policy on products. I agree. However, consumers have the right to go to a different supermarket, without selling their house.
- nostrebored 3y ago
  And supermarkets have no obligation to build expressways to their competitors! We can take these analogy absurdities wherever — the harsh reality is that nobody is stopping someone from building an open ecosystem phone. But there isn’t enough demand. As a consumer, why should I care? As a company, unless I’m building my own walled garden for company phones, why should I care? What’s the market here?
  - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
    > We can take these analogy absurdities wherever — the harsh reality is that nobody is stopping someone from building an open ecosystem phone. But there isn’t enough demand. I don't think there's too little demand, I think there's too much profit incentive in the other direction. Only a tiny number of companies on earth have the resources to build a successful mobile platform. If you are lucky enough to be one of those companies, you're not going to leave money on the table.
  - wvenable 3y ago
    > the harsh reality is that nobody is stopping someone from building an open ecosystem phone. The harsh reality is that manufacturing capacity and network effects actually prevents building an open ecosystem phone. You will never be able to purchase the best chips and displays. I think we need to stop pretending that regulating competition is a bad thing. Competition is what makes capitalism work as an economic system. Without competition capitalism is inefficient and harmful. If we can inject more competition into the system as a whole, wherever possible, it's going to be good for consumers.
- TerrifiedMouse 3y ago
  > However, consumers have the right to go to a different supermarket, without selling their house. Consumers bought this house with their eyes wide open knowing that they can only access one supermarket.
  - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
    I'd challenge you on that. I think 95%+ of iPhone buyers have no idea that Apple places restrictions on what they are allowed to install.
    - c0pium 3y ago
      You’d lose that bet handily. People like Apple because of the curation and the ecosystem. A mainstream complaint about Apple is not that they place restrictions, but rather that they let too much low-quality stuff in.
      - freedomben 3y ago
        Citation needed. (Citation also would be good for GP's claim, but they did specify "think" and were clearly speculating, whereas you make your assertion with certainty). There are billions of iphones out there. Unless you're working with data (which you should share) then your anecdotal experience from talking with other tech literate people is so ridiculously non-representative that it's hard to even visualize.
        c0pium 3y ago
        Interesting that you chose to ask for a citation to an anecdote but not to the person who cited a specific percentage. You might want to google “confirmation bias”.
        freedomben 3y ago
        Interesting that you completely overlooked this part of my comment: "(Citation also would be good for GP's claim, but they did specify "think" and were clearly speculating, whereas you make your assertion with certainty)" Might want to Google "Confirmation Bias"
- EA-3167 3y ago
  Speaking as someone who's gotten more than one tech illiterate relative an iPhone and iPad, the walled garden is WHY I bought in. It's literally Apple's biggest selling point, not having to worry about fake apps and malware and scams.
  - noirscape 3y ago
    10 years ago that might have been true, but nowadays Apple doesn't give a single flying shit about fake/scammy apps on the iOS app store. It's to the point where you can't look up local government apps here without getting some advertising garbage in the results first because Apple started selling app space.
cyberax 3y ago
> I don't get it, so no company can provide a walled garden Apple doesn't have multiple competing stores. It has ONE store. And if you are a software vendor that makes mobile apps, you HAVE to support Apple or you will go out of business.
- nostrebored 3y ago
  Because consumers value the Apple ecosystem and UX, both of which you can take advantage of as a developer. What is the problem?
  - oarsinsync 3y ago
    The problem is that after a decade, my choices are to continue to spend money at Apple, or spend even more money and time to leave Apple, go somewhere else, and buy all the apps I already own, all over again. When I first started, I used to think of Apple as the best option available to me. Now I think about it as the least bad option. The cost of leaving involves so much time and money, that it’s not a realistic option.
    - badwolf 3y ago
      That's... life. DVDs come out. Now I have to rebuy all my VHS movies on another platform...
      - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
        No you don't, you can buy a VHS player and keep using it without throwing out your TV. Or buy a combined DVD/VHS player. The only reason to buy DVDs is because the quality is better. You're getting additional value for your purchase, beyond the artificial restrictions of a mega corporation.
      - oarsinsync 3y ago
        Hilariously, I did replace all my VHS with DVDs. I didn’t make that mistake a third time with blurays.
triplesec 3y ago
This is a poor analogy, because there is no coparable access to build other app stores, as this is not the same kind of ecosystem for a market.

Wowfunhappy 3y ago

> I don't think stores have an obligation to carry your products, it isn't like supermarkets are breaking the law because they don't have an open-door policy on products. I agree. However, consumers have the right to go to a different supermarket, without selling their house.

nostrebored 3y ago
And supermarkets have no obligation to build expressways to their competitors! We can take these analogy absurdities wherever — the harsh reality is that nobody is stopping someone from building an open ecosystem phone. But there isn’t enough demand. As a consumer, why should I care? As a company, unless I’m building my own walled garden for company phones, why should I care? What’s the market here?
- Wowfunhappy 3y ago
  > We can take these analogy absurdities wherever — the harsh reality is that nobody is stopping someone from building an open ecosystem phone. But there isn’t enough demand. I don't think there's too little demand, I think there's too much profit incentive in the other direction. Only a tiny number of companies on earth have the resources to build a successful mobile platform. If you are lucky enough to be one of those companies, you're not going to leave money on the table.
- wvenable 3y ago
  > the harsh reality is that nobody is stopping someone from building an open ecosystem phone. The harsh reality is that manufacturing capacity and network effects actually prevents building an open ecosystem phone. You will never be able to purchase the best chips and displays. I think we need to stop pretending that regulating competition is a bad thing. Competition is what makes capitalism work as an economic system. Without competition capitalism is inefficient and harmful. If we can inject more competition into the system as a whole, wherever possible, it's going to be good for consumers.
TerrifiedMouse 3y ago
> However, consumers have the right to go to a different supermarket, without selling their house. Consumers bought this house with their eyes wide open knowing that they can only access one supermarket.
- Wowfunhappy 3y ago
  I'd challenge you on that. I think 95%+ of iPhone buyers have no idea that Apple places restrictions on what they are allowed to install.
  - c0pium 3y ago
    You’d lose that bet handily. People like Apple because of the curation and the ecosystem. A mainstream complaint about Apple is not that they place restrictions, but rather that they let too much low-quality stuff in.
    - freedomben 3y ago
      Citation needed. (Citation also would be good for GP's claim, but they did specify "think" and were clearly speculating, whereas you make your assertion with certainty). There are billions of iphones out there. Unless you're working with data (which you should share) then your anecdotal experience from talking with other tech literate people is so ridiculously non-representative that it's hard to even visualize.
      - c0pium 3y ago
        Interesting that you chose to ask for a citation to an anecdote but not to the person who cited a specific percentage. You might want to google “confirmation bias”.
        freedomben 3y ago
        Interesting that you completely overlooked this part of my comment: "(Citation also would be good for GP's claim, but they did specify "think" and were clearly speculating, whereas you make your assertion with certainty)" Might want to Google "Confirmation Bias"
EA-3167 3y ago
Speaking as someone who's gotten more than one tech illiterate relative an iPhone and iPad, the walled garden is WHY I bought in. It's literally Apple's biggest selling point, not having to worry about fake apps and malware and scams.
- noirscape 3y ago
  10 years ago that might have been true, but nowadays Apple doesn't give a single flying shit about fake/scammy apps on the iOS app store. It's to the point where you can't look up local government apps here without getting some advertising garbage in the results first because Apple started selling app space.

cyberax 3y ago

> I don't get it, so no company can provide a walled garden Apple doesn't have multiple competing stores. It has ONE store. And if you are a software vendor that makes mobile apps, you HAVE to support Apple or you will go out of business.

nostrebored 3y ago
Because consumers value the Apple ecosystem and UX, both of which you can take advantage of as a developer. What is the problem?
- oarsinsync 3y ago
  The problem is that after a decade, my choices are to continue to spend money at Apple, or spend even more money and time to leave Apple, go somewhere else, and buy all the apps I already own, all over again. When I first started, I used to think of Apple as the best option available to me. Now I think about it as the least bad option. The cost of leaving involves so much time and money, that it’s not a realistic option.
  - badwolf 3y ago
    That's... life. DVDs come out. Now I have to rebuy all my VHS movies on another platform...
    - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
      No you don't, you can buy a VHS player and keep using it without throwing out your TV. Or buy a combined DVD/VHS player. The only reason to buy DVDs is because the quality is better. You're getting additional value for your purchase, beyond the artificial restrictions of a mega corporation.
    - oarsinsync 3y ago
      Hilariously, I did replace all my VHS with DVDs. I didn’t make that mistake a third time with blurays.

triplesec 3y ago

This is a poor analogy, because there is no coparable access to build other app stores, as this is not the same kind of ecosystem for a market.