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Apple offers the same kinds of deals (see Netflix discussions) though there the rationales are different, which leads to sweatier "Apple has to offer deals beca

by rtpg 3y ago

Apple offers the same kinds of deals (see Netflix discussions) though there the rationales are different, which leads to sweatier "Apple has to offer deals because their value add is so bad, and having alternative app stores would help"-style arguments... I don't really know of a good legal argument there.

colechristensen 3y ago
Is Apple's deal with Netflix anticompetitive though? Google is paying hardware manufacturers to use their search and for exclusivity with their store. Both of those are more or less explicitly to keep out competition. Apple cut a deal with Netflix but what competition does it squash? These are just different issues.
- rtpg 3y ago
  I agree the issues are different! I do believe there’s a subtle argument to be made about how Apple can use its customer base to “pick winners” (combo of huge user base + App Store being the only entry point), on top of things like offering sweetheart deals to certain apps. Meta being allowed to get away with so much “against the App Store rules” stuff is legit IMO. Anticompetitive behavior can be downstream of stuff like this, even if Apple isn’t actively quashing something but merely making it way easier for certain places to absorb the costs (especially if the deal was only offered to Netflix but not to other platforms). Its not a ironclad argument by any means but its something
- hatsix 3y ago
  It squashes competition with Netflix
  - MBCook 3y ago
    But Apple didn’t decide that only Netflix could be on their platform. And they didn’t take money to cause problems for other streaming video services. That’s what Google did according to the verdict. They paid money to stop competitors. In fact Apple negotiated that deal to keep Netflix on the platform because Netflix wasn’t happy paying 30% (surprise). It’s not good that they’re playing favorites secretly, but it’s not the same thing
    - croes 3y ago
      Did other streaming services get the same deal?
      - meepmorp 3y ago
        That doesn't matter. Businesses aren't required to make the same deals with everyone.
        croes 3y ago
        But if one service gets a better deal than it's competitors then it's market impediment. And Apple had previously explicitly stated in its defense that everyone got the same deal.
- croes 3y ago
  >Is Apple's deal with Netflix anticompetitive though? Towards other streaming services? Yes.
  - colechristensen 3y ago
    Giving preferential treatment to one customer at the expense of other customers is not anticompetitive behavior as defined by any law I'm aware of. The law doesn't say you have to give everybody the same deal just because it's "unfair" to others. The monopoly/antitrust/etc. laws are about misusing a position of power for your own benefit at the expense of competitors. Apple doesn't have to be "fair" to Netflix vs Max vs Disney Plus.
    - jachee 3y ago
      Plus, Netflix isn’t even Apple’s customer. It’s actually kinda the other way around: Apple’s customers are what Netflix wants access to, as a source of potential Netflix customers.
      - colechristensen 3y ago
        When you’re a marketplace, especially a big one, both the people buying in your store and the people selling in your store start to look like customers, both paying you for access to the other. For the sellers is obviously more implicit, but still often explicit like grocery stores getting paid to put specific products on aisle end caps and such. The whole 30% fee is premised on providing services to app makers for money.
    - croes 3y ago
      But Apple stated all got the same deal and had to pay the same. But they lied.
  - TheCleric 3y ago
    Considering Apple has its own streaming service, this may in fact be the opposite of monopolistic.
  - 3y ago
GeekyBear 3y ago
From 2018: > Netflix stops offering in-app subscriptions for new and returning customers on iOS https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/28/18159373/netflix-in-app-subscriptions-iphone-ipad-ios-apple https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/28/18159373/netflix-in-app-... Apple allows companies that have a free app used to access subscription content to sell the subscriptions on their own website without giving Apple a cut. Netflix used to allow you to pay though Apple to reduce the sales friction of needing to set up billing through the Netflix website, but they stopped letting users pay through Apple years ago.
- samastur 3y ago
  Maybe they stopped new subscriptions, but I'm still paying for Netflix through Apple.

by rtpg 3y ago

colechristensen 3y ago

Is Apple's deal with Netflix anticompetitive though? Google is paying hardware manufacturers to use their search and for exclusivity with their store. Both of those are more or less explicitly to keep out competition. Apple cut a deal with Netflix but what competition does it squash? These are just different issues.

rtpg 3y ago
I agree the issues are different! I do believe there’s a subtle argument to be made about how Apple can use its customer base to “pick winners” (combo of huge user base + App Store being the only entry point), on top of things like offering sweetheart deals to certain apps. Meta being allowed to get away with so much “against the App Store rules” stuff is legit IMO. Anticompetitive behavior can be downstream of stuff like this, even if Apple isn’t actively quashing something but merely making it way easier for certain places to absorb the costs (especially if the deal was only offered to Netflix but not to other platforms). Its not a ironclad argument by any means but its something
hatsix 3y ago
It squashes competition with Netflix
- MBCook 3y ago
  But Apple didn’t decide that only Netflix could be on their platform. And they didn’t take money to cause problems for other streaming video services. That’s what Google did according to the verdict. They paid money to stop competitors. In fact Apple negotiated that deal to keep Netflix on the platform because Netflix wasn’t happy paying 30% (surprise). It’s not good that they’re playing favorites secretly, but it’s not the same thing
  - croes 3y ago
    Did other streaming services get the same deal?
    - meepmorp 3y ago
      That doesn't matter. Businesses aren't required to make the same deals with everyone.
      - croes 3y ago
        But if one service gets a better deal than it's competitors then it's market impediment. And Apple had previously explicitly stated in its defense that everyone got the same deal.
croes 3y ago
>Is Apple's deal with Netflix anticompetitive though? Towards other streaming services? Yes.
- colechristensen 3y ago
  Giving preferential treatment to one customer at the expense of other customers is not anticompetitive behavior as defined by any law I'm aware of. The law doesn't say you have to give everybody the same deal just because it's "unfair" to others. The monopoly/antitrust/etc. laws are about misusing a position of power for your own benefit at the expense of competitors. Apple doesn't have to be "fair" to Netflix vs Max vs Disney Plus.
  - jachee 3y ago
    Plus, Netflix isn’t even Apple’s customer. It’s actually kinda the other way around: Apple’s customers are what Netflix wants access to, as a source of potential Netflix customers.
    - colechristensen 3y ago
      When you’re a marketplace, especially a big one, both the people buying in your store and the people selling in your store start to look like customers, both paying you for access to the other. For the sellers is obviously more implicit, but still often explicit like grocery stores getting paid to put specific products on aisle end caps and such. The whole 30% fee is premised on providing services to app makers for money.
  - croes 3y ago
    But Apple stated all got the same deal and had to pay the same. But they lied.
- TheCleric 3y ago
  Considering Apple has its own streaming service, this may in fact be the opposite of monopolistic.
- 3y ago

GeekyBear 3y ago

From 2018: > Netflix stops offering in-app subscriptions for new and returning customers on iOS https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/28/18159373/netflix-in-app-subscriptions-iphone-ipad-ios-apple https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/28/18159373/netflix-in-app-... Apple allows companies that have a free app used to access subscription content to sell the subscriptions on their own website without giving Apple a cut. Netflix used to allow you to pay though Apple to reduce the sales friction of needing to set up billing through the Netflix website, but they stopped letting users pay through Apple years ago.

samastur 3y ago
Maybe they stopped new subscriptions, but I'm still paying for Netflix through Apple.