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Scholars who study the Middle East are afraid to speak out
- happymellon 3y agohttps://archive.is/BwDQ3 https://archive.is/BwDQ3
- pastacacioepepe 3y agoPeak free democratic society is when scholars are afraid to speak truths inconvenient to the military complex & co.
- cycrutchfield 3y agoI don’t think the military-industrial complex is what they are worried about
- houseatrielah 3y agoThey're worried about pressure from the Jewish lobby. https://www.axios.com/2023/12/07/upenn-antisemitism-magill-100-million-donation https://www.axios.com/2023/12/07/upenn-antisemitism-magill-1...
- tsimionescu 3y agoI think it's far more accurate to call this the Israeli lobby. There is plenty of Jewish opposition to the Israeli government's actions, both inside and especially outside of Israel.
- notavalleyman 3y agoWhat about the story in that link implies a conspiracy of Jewish lobbyists? It's a story about an asset manager who was due to donate and then changed his mind. You don't need to posit a shadowy cabal of Jewish or Israeli conspirators to make sense of these stories
- tsimionescu 3y agoThere's no shadowy Israeli lobby, there are very obvious and high profile people lobbying for Israeli causes. The groups denouncing BDS as "antisemitic", the ones that got many US states and the federal government to require employees to sign a pledge not to participate in BDS, for example. Also, I should have noted that I wasn't referring to the Axios article, but to the larger problem being raised by the article we're commenting on.
- GaryNumanVevo 3y agoAIPAC (American Israel Public Affairs Committee) is literally one of the most powerful lobbying groups in the United States.
- notavalleyman 3y agoThat's a link about a donation, from an asset management company, not some "lobby". It doesn't even say that the donor is Jewish. I don't think it's okay for you to draw a straight line, from an asset management company, to the Jewish lobby bogeyman. You don't need to posit a Jewish conspiracy when reading that link. It's about someone who was due to donate money and then changed their mind.
- dooopdoop 3y agoWhen has that not been the case though? Arguably less so now then then.
- Aurornis 3y agoThe self-censoring is to avoid speaking opinions unpopular among their own peers and fellow academics. They don’t care the slightest what the military industrial complex thinks.
- kevinventullo 3y agoNot just peers and fellow academics, but also students and notably, as the article mentions, “external advocacy groups.”
- mcpackieh 3y ago> Just over 81 percent of those self-censoring said they primarily held back their criticism of Israel, while 11 percent said they held back from criticizing Palestinians. I read this article a while ago that I think had an interesting take on the matter: "Yes, Anti-Zionism Is Anti-Semitic. But It’s Still Protected Speech." https://forward.com/opinion/430307/yes-anti-zionism-is-anti-semitic-but-its-still-protected-speech/ https://forward.com/opinion/430307/yes-anti-zionism-is-anti-... One one hand you have people saying that any criticism of Israel is antisemitic and should therefore be suppressed, and on the other hand you have people saying that indeed, any critics of Israel is antisemitic but it should nevertheless be permitted. I think this goes a long way to explaining the lopsided suppression of academic voices.
- tremon 3y agoBoth statements rely on a false prior however, so there is no value in either of the two conclusions. Criticism of Israel is not antisemitism, just like criticism of Sharia law is not islamophobia and criticism of the Republican party is not anti-Christian.
- mcpackieh 3y agoOf course both claims are false, but they are nevertheless popular points of view, and the popularity of these points of view explain why academics feel suppressed. That's the point I'm making here, I thought that was clear.
- k__ 3y agoI had the impression the consensus was that Hamas are terrorists and the Israel government consists of right-wing nutjobs. Being on the side of the people, not on the side of warmongers, etc.
- mcpackieh 3y agoYour impression of a consensus is shaped by lopsided censorship and suppression of the other side. 98% of assistant professors say they self-censor, and 81% of those say they're self-censoring views critical of Israel. That's 79% of assistant professors who would be voicing opinions against Israel if not for the pressure they perceive to silence themselves. If anything, your perception of consensus is completely backwards.
- mcpackieh 3y agoAaand it's flagged. This kind of discussion is suppressed on HN too, not just on campuses.
- notavalleyman 3y agoI clicked flag. It's not suppression. Actually your knee-jerk "suppression" claim is pointing in the direction of why I clicked flag. It's because people are unable to handle these topics without delving into conspiracy theories. You had two paths you could have gone down. Path one - it's active suppression, which means mens rea, which means someone is out there silencing me, which means a conspiracy is active, to shut down criticism of Israel. Which means the Elders of Zion are at it again. Path two - hn users have clicked flag, so it's flagged Why did you choose path one? What about this topic is breaking peoples' brains so badly? That's why I clicked it. I don't want hn users to verbalise their anti-jewish theories.
- tremon 3y agoIt's because people are unable to handle these topics without delving into conspiracy theories. That's not a reason to flag a submission, that's a reason not to read the discussion.
- notavalleyman 3y agoAn article whose follow-on discussion is mostly offtopic conspiracy theories (which they were) ought not to be here, imo, but maybe I'm wrong on the guideline etiquette
- rewmie 3y ago[flagged]
- leereeves 3y agoHow is any of this a conspiracy theory? The campaign to silence criticism of Israel is well documented, even here on HN. "Israeli gov-led Zoom calls, WhatsApp chat logs, and other docs provide a window into the massive effort to shape online discourse and silence pro-Palestinian voices." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38572675 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38572675
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- just4thought 3y agofalse flag. Post is relevant because the issue of self-censorship in academia has a direct impact on scientific positions which has a direct impact on the administration of tech.
- leereeves 3y agoAlso relevant because the same movement that is targeting academics is targeting tech leaders. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38572076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38572076
- bluish29 3y agoIt's flagged submission now. But for record, I want to add that there is a website that complies list of people that criticize isreal, boycott it or even join any of the organizations that they consider anti-isreal. Of course they paint it as anti-semitism. They focus on people on American campuses. They even add Jewish people from Jewish Voice for Peace organization to the list/blackliet. There are some rumors that Isreali authority use this list to deny entry to isreal/Palestine. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_Mission https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_Mission
- usehackernews 3y ago[flagged]
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- rewmie 3y ago[flagged]
- leereeves 3y ago[flagged]
- rewmie 3y ago[flagged]
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- catlover76 3y ago[flagged]