3 ms·

I went back to uni after a 15 year career writing software. I attended the all the office hours for all my classes. Instructors went from shocked to excited, an

by shae 3y ago

I went back to uni after a 15 year career writing software. I attended the all the office hours for all my classes. Instructors went from shocked to excited, and I learned so much!

z3dd 3y ago
I think 18-24 is just way too young for most people to study at a university (at least math/physics-based ones). I don't have a better solution, but only about 6-7 years after graduating I realized I would then have enjoyed these classes and learned from them much much more.
- sage76 3y ago
  Same here, I feel like I could have done a lot more at college, knowing what I know now. I couldn't see the big picture, and I felt uninspired most of the time.
- loganfrederick 3y ago
  A big problem (from my experience) is the cultural shift from high school to university. Our high schools do a terrible job at preparing students for college. Just off the top of my head: - High school classes are typically too easy - So kids develop poor study habits which don't serve them well for college material - And most high school teachers are bad at getting kids excited about the subject because they're exhausted themselves from babysitting and treat the work as a job. College professors can be bad at "teaching" but for different reasons (being researchers first and foremost). This disconnect in the reasons for bad education being different in environments is also not taught well to kids ahead of time (because who in this formula would? Requires good parenting or very self-conscious teachers at all levels). There are definitely exceptions to this rule, but they are too few to solve the overarching problems.
  - abdullahkhalids 3y ago
    > High school classes are typically too easy The UK based O/A system, which is used in many of the former colonies, is not as easy as the North American high school system. O levels is easy. But A levels content is almost as difficult as a typical first year university course. Yet, students from those systems also face an equivalent huge shock when they switch to university. The reason is fundamentally different. In school, students are infantalized and their own education is not considered their responsibility. In university, nobody used to care whether you sank or swam. So students struggled. But that has changed quite a lot now. Many universities have almost a "no child left behind" policy - yes they do think child not adult who chose to attend university. So even if students in the past used to attend office hours (I don't know), today they don't because it is no longer their responsibility to learn.
    - sieste 3y ago
      > Many universities have almost a "no child left behind" policy. That's true, it's difficult to encourage independent learning at undergrad level and we often end up hand holding and spoon feeding material like in high school. This is partly because it's an easy fix to avoid the most negative student evaluations from the "I won't put in the work and when I fail it's the teacher's fault" types. There aren't many of those but the vocal few can really ruin evaluation average of an otherwise great course. The downside of the policy is obviously that the can gets kicked down the road and employers have to deal with the inability to learn independently.
      - nicoburns 3y ago
        IMO the more fundamental problem is that the examinations typically won’t measure how much students have learnt independently. If you want to do well in most university exams, then you need to pay very close attention to exactly what the professor wants you to learn and make sure you’re learning exactly that. It is possible to design exams that actually grade people on their knowledge of the subject in general, but most universities seem to leave exam design to the course leader, so quality varies drastically.
        _heimdall 3y ago
        There are benefits to this model too though. Centralized exam design will be slower to adjust and adapt as industries evolve and the skills needed change. When individual professors write exams, the good ones will have exams that better match what students will need to learn today. The bad professors that can't write quality exams honestly should just be trained and/or let go if the problem persists.
        xanderlewis 3y ago
        I’m sure it depends greatly on subject, but my experience has been quite the opposite. If you do even a modicum of learning ‘outside the classroom’ many exam questions suddenly become a routine triviality. If you learn only what the lecturer intends you directly to learn, you end up at a point where the exam is optimally difficult. Looking at textbooks and other universities’ lecture notes on your own is so effective it almost feels like cheating!
- LanternLight83 3y ago
  This is very re-assuring as someone that's been "taking a gap year" for as long as I wa in high-school
- Negitivefrags 3y ago
  I don't think it's an age thing, just maturity. A type of maturity that develops much more slowly while being in the education system.
  - svilen_dobrev 3y ago
    exactly. And it applies generally in life too. esp. in "western" well-off places. i have met (okay, seen eyes of) ~12y old kids with probably "35y-old"-grade experience behind... And i have met a few 38 or 43y old human exemplars that barely pass for 6-7-10y old at most. yeah, teaching is hard. You have to learn more than them, about them, in no time, in order to build the (different) bridge to everyone. Takes... time. And gumption.
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  I think 18-24 is too young to choose what to study, but not too young to study.
- randomdata 3y ago
  I expect is not age, but experience that is significant. 6-7 years in the "real world" gave you the perspective to relate those classes to something meaningful that you didn't have before. We leave our children in a weird bubble where they don't get to experience the world much beyond school during primary and secondary ages, and those who go on to university typically don't deviate from that bubble until graduation. Better life balance through youth, perhaps especially with more involvement in the workplace, seems like one potential solution.
- d0gsg0w00f 3y ago
  I dropped out of uni when I was 19. Worked for about 5 years doing low skilled labor. This sent me back to school on my own dime with a fire inside to finish. For my personality type this worked well for me. I have to really buy into something before I put my heart into it. The only reason I wouldn't recommend this approach is that working full time and going to school was brutal.
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago
    >The only reason I wouldn't recommend this approach is that working full time and going to school was brutal. Note that in the US, it can be easier to get federal financial aid after age 25 (parental financial assets are no longer considered).
- 0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago
  I've had the same thought, but on the other hand, would you really feel ready for math and physics at 30 if you hadn't spent years struggling with it at 18-24? Maybe the only way to develop the maturity to feel ready is to dive in and struggle with it anyways, even when you don't feel ready.

by shae 3y ago

I went back to uni after a 15 year career writing software. I attended the all the office hours for all my classes. Instructors went from shocked to excited, and I learned so much!

z3dd 3y ago

I think 18-24 is just way too young for most people to study at a university (at least math/physics-based ones). I don't have a better solution, but only about 6-7 years after graduating I realized I would then have enjoyed these classes and learned from them much much more.

sage76 3y ago
Same here, I feel like I could have done a lot more at college, knowing what I know now. I couldn't see the big picture, and I felt uninspired most of the time.
loganfrederick 3y ago
A big problem (from my experience) is the cultural shift from high school to university. Our high schools do a terrible job at preparing students for college. Just off the top of my head: - High school classes are typically too easy - So kids develop poor study habits which don't serve them well for college material - And most high school teachers are bad at getting kids excited about the subject because they're exhausted themselves from babysitting and treat the work as a job. College professors can be bad at "teaching" but for different reasons (being researchers first and foremost). This disconnect in the reasons for bad education being different in environments is also not taught well to kids ahead of time (because who in this formula would? Requires good parenting or very self-conscious teachers at all levels). There are definitely exceptions to this rule, but they are too few to solve the overarching problems.
- abdullahkhalids 3y ago
  > High school classes are typically too easy The UK based O/A system, which is used in many of the former colonies, is not as easy as the North American high school system. O levels is easy. But A levels content is almost as difficult as a typical first year university course. Yet, students from those systems also face an equivalent huge shock when they switch to university. The reason is fundamentally different. In school, students are infantalized and their own education is not considered their responsibility. In university, nobody used to care whether you sank or swam. So students struggled. But that has changed quite a lot now. Many universities have almost a "no child left behind" policy - yes they do think child not adult who chose to attend university. So even if students in the past used to attend office hours (I don't know), today they don't because it is no longer their responsibility to learn.
  - sieste 3y ago
    > Many universities have almost a "no child left behind" policy. That's true, it's difficult to encourage independent learning at undergrad level and we often end up hand holding and spoon feeding material like in high school. This is partly because it's an easy fix to avoid the most negative student evaluations from the "I won't put in the work and when I fail it's the teacher's fault" types. There aren't many of those but the vocal few can really ruin evaluation average of an otherwise great course. The downside of the policy is obviously that the can gets kicked down the road and employers have to deal with the inability to learn independently.
    - nicoburns 3y ago
      IMO the more fundamental problem is that the examinations typically won’t measure how much students have learnt independently. If you want to do well in most university exams, then you need to pay very close attention to exactly what the professor wants you to learn and make sure you’re learning exactly that. It is possible to design exams that actually grade people on their knowledge of the subject in general, but most universities seem to leave exam design to the course leader, so quality varies drastically.
      - _heimdall 3y ago
        There are benefits to this model too though. Centralized exam design will be slower to adjust and adapt as industries evolve and the skills needed change. When individual professors write exams, the good ones will have exams that better match what students will need to learn today. The bad professors that can't write quality exams honestly should just be trained and/or let go if the problem persists.
      - xanderlewis 3y ago
        I’m sure it depends greatly on subject, but my experience has been quite the opposite. If you do even a modicum of learning ‘outside the classroom’ many exam questions suddenly become a routine triviality. If you learn only what the lecturer intends you directly to learn, you end up at a point where the exam is optimally difficult. Looking at textbooks and other universities’ lecture notes on your own is so effective it almost feels like cheating!
LanternLight83 3y ago
This is very re-assuring as someone that's been "taking a gap year" for as long as I wa in high-school
Negitivefrags 3y ago
I don't think it's an age thing, just maturity. A type of maturity that develops much more slowly while being in the education system.
- svilen_dobrev 3y ago
  exactly. And it applies generally in life too. esp. in "western" well-off places. i have met (okay, seen eyes of) ~12y old kids with probably "35y-old"-grade experience behind... And i have met a few 38 or 43y old human exemplars that barely pass for 6-7-10y old at most. yeah, teaching is hard. You have to learn more than them, about them, in no time, in order to build the (different) bridge to everyone. Takes... time. And gumption.
quickthrower2 3y ago
I think 18-24 is too young to choose what to study, but not too young to study.
randomdata 3y ago
I expect is not age, but experience that is significant. 6-7 years in the "real world" gave you the perspective to relate those classes to something meaningful that you didn't have before. We leave our children in a weird bubble where they don't get to experience the world much beyond school during primary and secondary ages, and those who go on to university typically don't deviate from that bubble until graduation. Better life balance through youth, perhaps especially with more involvement in the workplace, seems like one potential solution.
d0gsg0w00f 3y ago
I dropped out of uni when I was 19. Worked for about 5 years doing low skilled labor. This sent me back to school on my own dime with a fire inside to finish. For my personality type this worked well for me. I have to really buy into something before I put my heart into it. The only reason I wouldn't recommend this approach is that working full time and going to school was brutal.
- 0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago
  >The only reason I wouldn't recommend this approach is that working full time and going to school was brutal. Note that in the US, it can be easier to get federal financial aid after age 25 (parental financial assets are no longer considered).
0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago
I've had the same thought, but on the other hand, would you really feel ready for math and physics at 30 if you hadn't spent years struggling with it at 18-24? Maybe the only way to develop the maturity to feel ready is to dive in and struggle with it anyways, even when you don't feel ready.