6 ms·

> That's the idea, yes. Hmmm... if that's the case, I expect to see a lot of software taken off the EU market, whether by simply removing it from the app store

> That's the idea, yes. Hmmm... if that's the case, I expect to see a lot of software taken off the EU market, whether by simply removing it from the app stores for Euro Zone or other means. This is gonna be the new GPDR.

acdha 3y ago
> This is gonna be the new GPDR We should certainly hope so given how much that forced a long overdue reckoning for the data collection and sales markets.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  Well, no. Outfits like Facebook and Amazon can afford to hire attorneys to keep them in compliance with GPDR (or, more accurately, skirt around it). Small website operators can't do that. Accordingly, many have banned EU IP addresses altogether. The basic phenomenon is called "regulatory capture" -- the large player counterintuitively does not object to onerous regulations, because their smaller competitors can't afford to comply with them. Happens all the time, in many different sectors of the economy. With regard to FOSS, I certainly wouldn't work on anything for free that was likely to get me enmeshed in the legal system of another country. If this legislation is as described above, someone's probably working on a FOSS license right now that allows the software to be used everywhere except the EU.
  - ffgjgf1 3y ago
    Complying with GDPR shouldn’t be that hard at all for most businesses if they introduce some basic procedures for handling/storing user data and most importantly don’t want to transfer/sell it to third parties
  - troupo 3y ago
    > can afford to hire attorneys to keep them in compliance with GPDR Compliance with GDPR is trivial for the absolute vast majority of businesses. Here's how GitHub does it: https://github.blog/2020-12-17-no-cookie-for-you/ https://github.blog/2020-12-17-no-cookie-for-you/ --- start quote --- At GitHub, we want to protect developer privacy, and we find cookie banners quite irritating, so we decided to look for a solution. After a brief search, we found one: just don’t use any non-essential cookies. Pretty simple, really. So, we have removed all non-essential cookies from GitHub, and visiting our website does not send any information to third-party analytics services. (And of course GitHub still does not use any cookies to display ads, or track you across other sites.) --- end quote ---
    - Turing_Machine 3y ago
      > Compliance with GDPR is trivial for the absolute vast majority of businesses. Nonsense. > Here's how GitHub does it That's nice. GitHub is a billion dollar Microsoft subsidiary with a gigantic legal team on speed dial. What does "non-essential" mean here? Personally, I'm not willing to gamble that my interpretation of "non-essential" matches the interpretation of some random EU bureaucrat.
      - troupo 3y ago
        > Nonsense It's absolute truth > That's nice. GitHub is a billion dollar Microsoft subsidiary with a gigantic legal team on speed dial. And instead of third-party tracking, selling your data to the highest bidder, and pestering you with miles-long cookie popups with hundreds of "partners", they don't do any of that. So, how is this impossible for any other business that doesn't have those lawyers? > What does "non-essential" mean here? The law has been around for 7 years now. If you still ask this question and assume that you need to spend billions on lawyers to do the easy sensible thing, it only means that you don't care about answers.
  - acdha 3y ago
    > Well, no. Outfits like Facebook and Amazon can afford to hire attorneys to keep them in compliance with GPDR (or, more accurately, skirt around it). > Small website operators can't do that. Accordingly, many have banned EU IP addresses altogether. It's much easier for small sites: not collecting data is free and if they aren't trying to resell it in ways which they don't want their customers to know about, it's easy enough to have a simple privacy policy. Those obtrusive banners are a political choice trying to make it look like GDPR compliance is onerous, but if you're not in the ad-tech business that's really not so hard since all of your cookies are essential.
krageon 3y ago
GDPR did really good things for the market as a whole. The number of (inevitably US) websites that made a big stink either didn't take the time to understand what they needed to do (perhaps an hour for an average website by a competent engineer), or are so incredibly allergic to the implication that they must act ethically that they decided to say "fuck this". For these cases, the world is better off if they don't exist. If you build a system and cannot live with the fact that a human must make the final estimation and be responsible for it's decisions, you should not be building a system that judges people.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  > The number of (inevitably US) websites that made a big stink either didn't take the time to understand what they needed to do (perhaps an hour for an average website by a competent engineer), or are so incredibly allergic to the implication that they must act ethically Or just decided that complying with EU security theatre administered by an unaccountable bureaucracy wasn't worth an hour of their time and just banned the Euros outright.

acdha 3y ago

> This is gonna be the new GPDR We should certainly hope so given how much that forced a long overdue reckoning for the data collection and sales markets.

Turing_Machine 3y ago
Well, no. Outfits like Facebook and Amazon can afford to hire attorneys to keep them in compliance with GPDR (or, more accurately, skirt around it). Small website operators can't do that. Accordingly, many have banned EU IP addresses altogether. The basic phenomenon is called "regulatory capture" -- the large player counterintuitively does not object to onerous regulations, because their smaller competitors can't afford to comply with them. Happens all the time, in many different sectors of the economy. With regard to FOSS, I certainly wouldn't work on anything for free that was likely to get me enmeshed in the legal system of another country. If this legislation is as described above, someone's probably working on a FOSS license right now that allows the software to be used everywhere except the EU.
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  Complying with GDPR shouldn’t be that hard at all for most businesses if they introduce some basic procedures for handling/storing user data and most importantly don’t want to transfer/sell it to third parties
- troupo 3y ago
  > can afford to hire attorneys to keep them in compliance with GPDR Compliance with GDPR is trivial for the absolute vast majority of businesses. Here's how GitHub does it: https://github.blog/2020-12-17-no-cookie-for-you/ https://github.blog/2020-12-17-no-cookie-for-you/ --- start quote --- At GitHub, we want to protect developer privacy, and we find cookie banners quite irritating, so we decided to look for a solution. After a brief search, we found one: just don’t use any non-essential cookies. Pretty simple, really. So, we have removed all non-essential cookies from GitHub, and visiting our website does not send any information to third-party analytics services. (And of course GitHub still does not use any cookies to display ads, or track you across other sites.) --- end quote ---
  - Turing_Machine 3y ago
    > Compliance with GDPR is trivial for the absolute vast majority of businesses. Nonsense. > Here's how GitHub does it That's nice. GitHub is a billion dollar Microsoft subsidiary with a gigantic legal team on speed dial. What does "non-essential" mean here? Personally, I'm not willing to gamble that my interpretation of "non-essential" matches the interpretation of some random EU bureaucrat.
    - troupo 3y ago
      > Nonsense It's absolute truth > That's nice. GitHub is a billion dollar Microsoft subsidiary with a gigantic legal team on speed dial. And instead of third-party tracking, selling your data to the highest bidder, and pestering you with miles-long cookie popups with hundreds of "partners", they don't do any of that. So, how is this impossible for any other business that doesn't have those lawyers? > What does "non-essential" mean here? The law has been around for 7 years now. If you still ask this question and assume that you need to spend billions on lawyers to do the easy sensible thing, it only means that you don't care about answers.
- acdha 3y ago
  > Well, no. Outfits like Facebook and Amazon can afford to hire attorneys to keep them in compliance with GPDR (or, more accurately, skirt around it). > Small website operators can't do that. Accordingly, many have banned EU IP addresses altogether. It's much easier for small sites: not collecting data is free and if they aren't trying to resell it in ways which they don't want their customers to know about, it's easy enough to have a simple privacy policy. Those obtrusive banners are a political choice trying to make it look like GDPR compliance is onerous, but if you're not in the ad-tech business that's really not so hard since all of your cookies are essential.

krageon 3y ago

GDPR did really good things for the market as a whole. The number of (inevitably US) websites that made a big stink either didn't take the time to understand what they needed to do (perhaps an hour for an average website by a competent engineer), or are so incredibly allergic to the implication that they must act ethically that they decided to say "fuck this". For these cases, the world is better off if they don't exist. If you build a system and cannot live with the fact that a human must make the final estimation and be responsible for it's decisions, you should not be building a system that judges people.

Turing_Machine 3y ago
> The number of (inevitably US) websites that made a big stink either didn't take the time to understand what they needed to do (perhaps an hour for an average website by a competent engineer), or are so incredibly allergic to the implication that they must act ethically Or just decided that complying with EU security theatre administered by an unaccountable bureaucracy wasn't worth an hour of their time and just banned the Euros outright.