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One in five young Americans think the Holocaust is a myth

21 points by blueridge 3y ago

johng 3y ago
The generation that gets their education and news from TikTok. Sad to see.
- foogazi 3y ago
  But not their only education - they still go to school
- eesmith 3y ago
  I don't see how you can blame TikTok or conclude it's sad without knowing the historical trend. Are the numbers better or worse than 20 years ago?
Georgelemental 3y ago
Beware the lizardman's constant: https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/12/noisy-poll-results-and-reptilian-muslim-climatologists-from-mars/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/12/noisy-poll-results-and...
- orwin 3y ago
  And I think this constant is not constant. It's growing with pollster distrust and with cynicism (which, let's be honest, is much more prevalent in genZ than before).
- jfengel 3y ago
  The Lizardman Constant is 4%. One-in-five is well outside of the Lizardman margin of error.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
rkfjrjrkfnrkd 3y ago
[dead]
tennisflyi 3y ago
As in it didn’t happen or couldn’t/wouldn't have because the world is sooo great?
Ajay-p 3y ago
I wonder if it is because the younger generations believe something that happened so long ago must be suspect, when everything today is so incredibly fast and hyper documented. I do not wish to sound like a pessimist, but it would not surprise me that there is someone who believes in the Holocaust did not happen because there would be more photos and videos of it, as if everyone had an iPhone.
the_third_wave 3y ago
The is quite a large difference in the way different groups think about this subject as is shown in the YouGov survey: 10% of Democrats vs 6% of Republicans 13% of Blacks vs 5% of Whites 14% of city residents vs 3% of rural people 20% of age 30- vs 0% of age 65+ 10% of men vs 4% of women 7% of Biden voters vs 4% of Trump voters Interestingly enough there is hardly any discrepancy between liberals (7%) and conservatives (6%) even though there is a marked difference between registered Democrats (10%) and Republicans (6%). Income also does not make a difference . Source: the actual study, the results of which can be found on the 'net, e.g. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GA0kt9ZWIAAaSO_?format=jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GA0kt9ZWIAAaSO_?format=jpg
LARPing4Jesus 3y ago
The Economist's article is strife with irony. Those who take the article or poll with seriousness, are actually equally (or perhaps more) gullible and naïve than the purported "holocaust deniers". The article (purposely) leaves out any information which could potentially confirm their claims. "Americans 18-24 get their news from social media rather than professional news organizations" translated: in the face of the propagandist's lackadaisically built narratives, people are gaining media literacy, and their skepticism is becoming necessary to navigate the waters of mainstream disinformation. Public relations fails again. Looks like further education doesn't just lower birth rate, but also, raises intelligence? Apparently they didn't see that coming... Also it should be noted "getting news from social media" often means reading news site articles that people posted links to on social networks. With the added benefit of commentary by real people, and thereby not falling for the crafted illusion of consensus. Shocker. Hurry, censor harder! Bot harder! We're loosing em guys, flood that zone! As for the poll, who the F knows, NO details on methodology, sampling characteristics, etc. Perhaps another Simpson's Paradox weaponized to shape public belief.
Ancapistani 3y ago
A few things about this jump out to me a little bit: One, is it possible that the popular understanding of the word “myth” has changed? I tend to think of it as being applied exclusively to fictitious stories, but that’s not the only definition. Any story that’s associated with a person or group could be considered a “myth”, regardless of its truth. The other big thing is that my generation (I’m ~40) was taught about the Holocaust as being either exclusively against the Jews, or at least mostly against the Jews. I have zero doubts that the ~6m Jewish people who were killed were in fact killed - but I also know that ~3m Soviet POWs were killed as well, and that they had similar extermination programs against homosexuals, dissenting intellectuals, and others for all kinds of political reasons. Those people seem to be rarely mentioned.
eesmith 3y ago
tl;dr; There is a historic difficulty in polling on this topic, such that one poll from 1993 suggested 20% of young Americans thought it possible the Holocaust did not happen, only to find that a repoll, with a different question, put the number of Holocaust deniers at just over 1 percent, and "Many of those who questioned or denied that the Holocaust occurred cited lack of information as the reason for their uncertainty, or displayed ignorance of basic facts about the Holocaust." I didn't see any mention of historical trends. Is this higher than it used to be? Is it lower? In trying to answer this for myself, I found https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/10/millennials-holocaust-knowledge-survey-debate.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/10/millennials-holocau... ; > In April 1993, in conjunction with the opening of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, the Roper Organization conducted a poll to determine the extent of Americans' knowledge of the Holocaust. Neither the Roper Organization nor the American Jewish Committee, which sponsored the poll, expected any startling results. But they were surprised by the response to one of the questions. When asked "Do you think it possible or impossible that the Holocaust did not happen?" 22 percent of American adults and 20 percent of American high school students answered, yes, it was possible. The response shocked many people who had long dismissed Holocaust denial as a wacky phenomenon of no more validity than the claim that the earth is regularly visited by alien beings. The poll's results, coupled with the deniers' recent forays onto college campuses in order to publish ads in campus newspapers denying the Holocaust, convinced many people that Holocaust denial constituted a clear and present danger. If it's 20% of young Americans in 1993 and only 10% now, then things have gotten better, right? In looking for more about the Roper survey, I found https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/177607 https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/177607 from 2020: > Recently, you may have heard that many young Americans are unaware of what happened in the Holocaust, or who was to blame for it. Worse, many believed it was a “myth” or “exaggerated.” “Nearly Two-Thirds of US Young Adults Unaware 6m Jews Killed in the Holocaust,” a headline blared in the Guardian, over a piece that asserted “shocking levels of ignorance about the greatest crime of the 20th century.” NBC News also reported the numbers, writing that the survey “showed that many respondents were unclear about the basic facts of the genocide.” ... > Whether or not the assumptions in the Claims Conference survey are fair, and how to tell, is at the core of a decades long debate over Holocaust knowledge surveys, which are notoriously difficult to design. In 1994, Roper Starch Worldwide, which conducted a poll for the American Jewish Committee, admitted that its widely publicized Holocaust denial question was “flawed.” Initially, it appeared that 1 in 5, or 22 percent, of Americans thought it was possible the Holocaust never happened. But pollsters later determined that the question—“Does it seem possible or does it seem impossible to you that the Nazi extermination of the Jews never happened?”—was confusing and biased the sample. In a subsequent Gallup poll, when asked to explain their views on the Holocaust in their own words, “only about 4 percent [of Americans] have real doubts about the Holocaust; the others are just insecure about their historical knowledge or won’t believe anything they have not experienced themselves,” according to an Associated Press report at the time. So, how well was this YouGov/Economist poll designed, given how it is "notoriously difficult to design" for this topic? I saw no discussion. I also found https://www.jta.org/archive/new-ajcommittee-poll-shows-1-1-percent-deny-holocaust-refutes-earlier-survey https://www.jta.org/archive/new-ajcommittee-poll-shows-1-1-p... from 1994 : > A new survey commissioned by the American Jewish Committee and conducted by Roper Starch Worldwide Inc. found that just over 1 percent of respondents deny that the Holocaust occurred, contradicting the group’s disputed 1992 poll which had put denial at more than 20 percent. > The new survey, released July 6, also found a strong correlation between denial of the Holocaust and knowledge of basic facts about it. Many of those who questioned or denied that the Holocaust occurred cited lack of information as the reason for their uncertainty, or displayed ignorance of basic facts about the Holocaust. > “Not only are the levels of denial low, but few are dedicated, committed deniers. Most of the questioning of the Holocaust reflects ignorance rather than anti-Semitic commitment,” A switch from 20% to 1%, just based on the polling question, highlights how hard it is to poll on this topic.

21 points by blueridge 3y ago

johng 3y ago

The generation that gets their education and news from TikTok. Sad to see.

foogazi 3y ago
But not their only education - they still go to school
eesmith 3y ago
I don't see how you can blame TikTok or conclude it's sad without knowing the historical trend. Are the numbers better or worse than 20 years ago?

Georgelemental 3y ago

Beware the lizardman's constant: https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/12/noisy-poll-results-and-reptilian-muslim-climatologists-from-mars/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/12/noisy-poll-results-and...

orwin 3y ago
And I think this constant is not constant. It's growing with pollster distrust and with cynicism (which, let's be honest, is much more prevalent in genZ than before).
jfengel 3y ago
The Lizardman Constant is 4%. One-in-five is well outside of the Lizardman margin of error.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

rkfjrjrkfnrkd 3y ago

[dead]

tennisflyi 3y ago

As in it didn’t happen or couldn’t/wouldn't have because the world is sooo great?

Ajay-p 3y ago

I wonder if it is because the younger generations believe something that happened so long ago must be suspect, when everything today is so incredibly fast and hyper documented. I do not wish to sound like a pessimist, but it would not surprise me that there is someone who believes in the Holocaust did not happen because there would be more photos and videos of it, as if everyone had an iPhone.

the_third_wave 3y ago

The is quite a large difference in the way different groups think about this subject as is shown in the YouGov survey: 10% of Democrats vs 6% of Republicans 13% of Blacks vs 5% of Whites 14% of city residents vs 3% of rural people 20% of age 30- vs 0% of age 65+ 10% of men vs 4% of women 7% of Biden voters vs 4% of Trump voters Interestingly enough there is hardly any discrepancy between liberals (7%) and conservatives (6%) even though there is a marked difference between registered Democrats (10%) and Republicans (6%). Income also does not make a difference . Source: the actual study, the results of which can be found on the 'net, e.g. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GA0kt9ZWIAAaSO_?format=jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GA0kt9ZWIAAaSO_?format=jpg

LARPing4Jesus 3y ago

The Economist's article is strife with irony. Those who take the article or poll with seriousness, are actually equally (or perhaps more) gullible and naïve than the purported "holocaust deniers". The article (purposely) leaves out any information which could potentially confirm their claims. "Americans 18-24 get their news from social media rather than professional news organizations" translated: in the face of the propagandist's lackadaisically built narratives, people are gaining media literacy, and their skepticism is becoming necessary to navigate the waters of mainstream disinformation. Public relations fails again. Looks like further education doesn't just lower birth rate, but also, raises intelligence? Apparently they didn't see that coming... Also it should be noted "getting news from social media" often means reading news site articles that people posted links to on social networks. With the added benefit of commentary by real people, and thereby not falling for the crafted illusion of consensus. Shocker. Hurry, censor harder! Bot harder! We're loosing em guys, flood that zone! As for the poll, who the F knows, NO details on methodology, sampling characteristics, etc. Perhaps another Simpson's Paradox weaponized to shape public belief.

Ancapistani 3y ago

A few things about this jump out to me a little bit: One, is it possible that the popular understanding of the word “myth” has changed? I tend to think of it as being applied exclusively to fictitious stories, but that’s not the only definition. Any story that’s associated with a person or group could be considered a “myth”, regardless of its truth. The other big thing is that my generation (I’m ~40) was taught about the Holocaust as being either exclusively against the Jews, or at least mostly against the Jews. I have zero doubts that the ~6m Jewish people who were killed were in fact killed - but I also know that ~3m Soviet POWs were killed as well, and that they had similar extermination programs against homosexuals, dissenting intellectuals, and others for all kinds of political reasons. Those people seem to be rarely mentioned.

eesmith 3y ago

tl;dr; There is a historic difficulty in polling on this topic, such that one poll from 1993 suggested 20% of young Americans thought it possible the Holocaust did not happen, only to find that a repoll, with a different question, put the number of Holocaust deniers at just over 1 percent, and "Many of those who questioned or denied that the Holocaust occurred cited lack of information as the reason for their uncertainty, or displayed ignorance of basic facts about the Holocaust." I didn't see any mention of historical trends. Is this higher than it used to be? Is it lower? In trying to answer this for myself, I found https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/10/millennials-holocaust-knowledge-survey-debate.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/10/millennials-holocau... ; > In April 1993, in conjunction with the opening of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, the Roper Organization conducted a poll to determine the extent of Americans' knowledge of the Holocaust. Neither the Roper Organization nor the American Jewish Committee, which sponsored the poll, expected any startling results. But they were surprised by the response to one of the questions. When asked "Do you think it possible or impossible that the Holocaust did not happen?" 22 percent of American adults and 20 percent of American high school students answered, yes, it was possible. The response shocked many people who had long dismissed Holocaust denial as a wacky phenomenon of no more validity than the claim that the earth is regularly visited by alien beings. The poll's results, coupled with the deniers' recent forays onto college campuses in order to publish ads in campus newspapers denying the Holocaust, convinced many people that Holocaust denial constituted a clear and present danger. If it's 20% of young Americans in 1993 and only 10% now, then things have gotten better, right? In looking for more about the Roper survey, I found https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/177607 https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/177607 from 2020: > Recently, you may have heard that many young Americans are unaware of what happened in the Holocaust, or who was to blame for it. Worse, many believed it was a “myth” or “exaggerated.” “Nearly Two-Thirds of US Young Adults Unaware 6m Jews Killed in the Holocaust,” a headline blared in the Guardian, over a piece that asserted “shocking levels of ignorance about the greatest crime of the 20th century.” NBC News also reported the numbers, writing that the survey “showed that many respondents were unclear about the basic facts of the genocide.” ... > Whether or not the assumptions in the Claims Conference survey are fair, and how to tell, is at the core of a decades long debate over Holocaust knowledge surveys, which are notoriously difficult to design. In 1994, Roper Starch Worldwide, which conducted a poll for the American Jewish Committee, admitted that its widely publicized Holocaust denial question was “flawed.” Initially, it appeared that 1 in 5, or 22 percent, of Americans thought it was possible the Holocaust never happened. But pollsters later determined that the question—“Does it seem possible or does it seem impossible to you that the Nazi extermination of the Jews never happened?”—was confusing and biased the sample. In a subsequent Gallup poll, when asked to explain their views on the Holocaust in their own words, “only about 4 percent [of Americans] have real doubts about the Holocaust; the others are just insecure about their historical knowledge or won’t believe anything they have not experienced themselves,” according to an Associated Press report at the time. So, how well was this YouGov/Economist poll designed, given how it is "notoriously difficult to design" for this topic? I saw no discussion. I also found https://www.jta.org/archive/new-ajcommittee-poll-shows-1-1-percent-deny-holocaust-refutes-earlier-survey https://www.jta.org/archive/new-ajcommittee-poll-shows-1-1-p... from 1994 : > A new survey commissioned by the American Jewish Committee and conducted by Roper Starch Worldwide Inc. found that just over 1 percent of respondents deny that the Holocaust occurred, contradicting the group’s disputed 1992 poll which had put denial at more than 20 percent. > The new survey, released July 6, also found a strong correlation between denial of the Holocaust and knowledge of basic facts about it. Many of those who questioned or denied that the Holocaust occurred cited lack of information as the reason for their uncertainty, or displayed ignorance of basic facts about the Holocaust. > “Not only are the levels of denial low, but few are dedicated, committed deniers. Most of the questioning of the Holocaust reflects ignorance rather than anti-Semitic commitment,” A switch from 20% to 1%, just based on the polling question, highlights how hard it is to poll on this topic.