5 ms·
Vitamin B6 deficiency leads to social deficits and cognitive impairment
- curiousgibbon 3y agoWarning: study is in mice and is quite specifically about schizophrenia. Your mileage may vary.
- notfed 3y agoAnd n=20.
- olliej 3y agoIf you can't trust a study of 20 clone mice to be representative of general impact of a vitamin deficiency in the wider human population, what can you trust?
- imtringued 3y agoI'm not sure you could find twenty clones of humans.
- ty4smoking 3y ago/? b6 b12 male smokers https://www.google.com/search?q=b6+b12+male+smokers https://www.google.com/search?q=b6+b12+male+smokers "Long-Term, High-Dose Vitamin B6/B12 Use Associated With Increased Lung Cancer Risk Among Men" (2023) https://cancer.osu.edu/news/long-term-high-dose-vitamin-b6-b12-use-associated-with-increased-lung-cancer-risk-among-men https://cancer.osu.edu/news/long-term-high-dose-vitamin-b6-b... : > Risk was further elevated in male smokers taking more than 20 milligrams of B6 or 55 micrograms of B12 a day for 10 years. Male smokers taking B6 at this dose were three times more likely to develop lung cancer. Male smokers taking B12 at such doses were approximately four times more likely to develop the disease compared to non-users.
- _xerces_ 3y agoThose are very high doses of each. An average multivitamin has 1.8 mg of B6 (vs. 20 mg in the study) and 6 mcg of B12 (vs. 55 mcg in the study). I am surprised anyone wants to take that much, but I guess the smokers were trying anything they could (short of actually quitting) to compensate for the effect their habit has on their health.
- mthoms 3y agoAren’t standalone B12 supplements typically measured in 3-4 digits (mcg)? I’m currently taking 1000mcg daily but I’ve seen up to 2500 at the local pharmacy.
- geeB 3y agoAbsorption is poor sublingually and is limited by https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsic_factor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsic_factor so I wouldn’t be surprised if most of those doses just get destroyed in the stomach
- mthoms 3y agoI have exactly that problem - malabsorption. The sublingual tablets have helped considerably. I’m just trying to understand why the other commenter considers the dose mention as “high”. I’ve never heard that claimed before.
- _xerces_ 3y agoI was referring to multivitamin levels which are typically ~100% RDA, so to get the levels the study considered harmful, you have to be intentionally taking large doses of B Vitamins which is easy not to do.
- ty4smoking 3y agoSome Caffeine Shots include very high doses of B6 and B12 vitamins. ## 2023-12: B6/B12 RDVs, RDV % Supplement Facts inconsistencies 5-Hour Energy nutrition facts: https://www.google.com/search?q=5+hour+energy+nutrition+facts https://www.google.com/search?q=5+hour+energy+nutrition+fact... : > B6: 40mg: 2000% RDV > B12: 500mcg: 8333% RDV 5-Hour Energy Extra Strength: > B6: 40mg: 2353% > B12: 500mcg: 20833% Summit Red Thunder Energy Shot nutrition facts: https://www.google.com/search?q=Summit+Red+Thunder+Energy+Shot+nutrition+facts https://www.google.com/search?q=Summit+Red+Thunder+Energy+Sh... > Kirkland Signature Extra Strength: > B6: 40mg: 2533% RDV > B12: 500mcg: 20833% RDV ... Again, /? b6 b12 male smokers https://www.google.com/search?q=b6+b12+male+smokers https://www.google.com/search?q=b6+b12+male+smokers "Long-Term, High-Dose Vitamin B6/B12 Use Associated With Increased Lung Cancer Risk Among Men" (2023) https://cancer.osu.edu/news/long-term-high-dose-vitamin-b6-b12-use-associated-with-increased-lung-cancer-risk-among-men https://cancer.osu.edu/news/long-term-high-dose-vitamin-b6-b...
- manmal 3y agoAnd B6 overdose causes small fiber neuropathy. It’s advisable to get levels checked before supplementing. I‘d consider getting the active form (P5P) as it also works when metabolism is impaired. Another thing to note is that those supplements often come in very high doses (eg 100x the DRI), which I personally wouldn’t take to avoid toxicity.
- freedomben 3y agoYes yes yes. B6 levels can get extremely high with the amounts in many B complex capsules, let alone the B6 specific. Take it easy on B6 unless you actually know your levels. More is not always better.
- jasfi 3y agoI'd say always supplement with P5P, never with B6. Although some may argue it's safe in small amounts.
- zingababba 3y agoB6 toxicity is absolutely no joke. https://understandingb6toxicity.com/b6-toxicity/symptoms/ https://understandingb6toxicity.com/b6-toxicity/symptoms/ Can take months to years to recover from. I've had it myself, had all kinds of symptoms including peripheral neuropathy. Couldn't feel my fingers. Took me ~6 months to recover full feeling in my fingers and toes. It's literally the reason I don't take supplements now.
- manmal 3y agoSorry to learn about your bad experience. Toxicity is vastly different for the different minerals and vitamins though, just need to inform yourself up front.
- zingababba 3y agoYeah I agree, I was being hyperbolic because I wrote that from my phone while walking around so didn't want to spend the time elaborating. I still take two supplements nearly daily. Those being choline and d3. Every now and then magnesium. However my first hand experience with toxicity as a result of nothing more than my attempt at gaining some type of insurance policy against bad health really caused me to reevaluate supplements and respect them in the same vein as any other drug. So now, I refuse to supplement anything until I can prove deficiency and a need with a blood test. In other words, spending the 50-100$ on a blood test is now my insurance against repeating my mistake. Unfortunately I can't test for choline status however I still supplement it based on my genomics and because it makes a clear difference in my cognitive function.
- Aardwolf 3y agoI wish there was some way to just know what minerals/vitamins/... I currently need the most (or, which could still have a positive effect even if already a sufficient amount), and which I already have enough of so could skip. So it'd be possible to supplement what's needed, and not the rest. A blood test supposedly should show this, but I only get one of those very rarely, and a snapshot of one such test doesn't tell much.
- crazygringo 3y agoYour own comment already gives the answer you're looking for. Blood tests, of which you can have multiple done over a time period. You're complaining a test doesn't exist because it's a test you only get done rarely...?
- Aardwolf 3y agoThe frequency would need to be quite high to know what you need each day, and such tests are expensive, slow (has to go to a lab etc...), a hassle, and not part of standard health insurance where I live
- gumby 3y agoDay-to-day levels don’t matter for a lot of the compounds of interest at the levels we’re talking about. In fact it generally takes a while for levels to adjust in any measurable or meaningful way.
- Aardwolf 3y agoThings like a headache or a bad sleep night are only for 1 day or so though, so those must be something that's lacking for just a day, not something that needs months to build up
- crazygringo 3y agoThose aren't being caused by vitamin deficiencies then. Headaches and lack of sleep can be caused by hunger, stress, tension, anxiety...
- bsd_source 3y ago[flagged]
- gumby 3y agoVegemite FTW!