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I believe you may have something with Anti-dollar. Joking aside, there’s almost always a company on the other side of the coin. Boycotting or otherwise public o

I believe you may have something with Anti-dollar. Joking aside, there’s almost always a company on the other side of the coin. Boycotting or otherwise public outcry’s and cancel culture would look a whole lot different if it were a value-based voting platform where competing interests vie for the value. Add reporting for government agencies on what’s “hot” and it sends a clear picture on what the national sentiment is.

codingdave 3y ago
I know this is a joke, too, but I worry that you aren't seeing the joke if you think there is something here. This is a setup to take in dollars from everyone and arbitrage the sentiment difference across the userbase, effectively meaning they don't have to pay anything and just take the dollars home. That's the joke. And anyone who actually would put in dollars are who the joke would be being played upon were it real.
- stevage 3y ago
  Yeah but imagine if there was something like this for real, only the dollars weren't greedily kept, but spent in some way that people on both sides support. Like, maybe pro-choice and anti-abortion supporters would both support the excess money going to support new mothers or adoption programs.
  - notahacker 3y ago
    Then imagine the incentives for campaigners to skip the two-sided prediction market and just spend their money on advertising directly to voters and lobbying politicians. Or the implications of implementing the only way to make this actually work by taking the pesky voters out of the decision process altogether and just letting the money decide the outcome...
    - priprimer 3y ago
      > letting the money decide the outcome some people call that data driven decision making and they like it others call it “skynet” and they fear it
    - gosub100 3y ago
      or they'd just shift the debate to why you shouldn't give money to the opposing party's cause: "they say the money is for ___, but really they do ____ with it".
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    There is a similar game that distributes more of the money to causes where people vote with their dollars and antidollars and the winning side gets 1-epsilon of it because the operator of the game requires vigorish. It's like poker with no cards. Ideally the winner puts in just a dollar more than the loser and they nearly double their donation. If the winner can't get enough information to do that and has to spend too much for the pot they end up making a huge unmatched contribution. The game makes sense to play if you're sure you will win but you don't want to start it if you think you won't.
    - reactordev 3y ago
      I believe I know this game. Strange how wording it this way makes way more sense.
- reactordev 3y ago
  I know but I was referring to just the concept of dollar vs anti-dollar. Not the payout or anything but just the idea that companies get X dollars where X is the sum of users who voted for them. Let the people decide. The reality is humans will find a way to make this corrupt.
  - codingdave 3y ago
    But that doesn't let the people decide. That lets the people with spare dollars decide.
    - reactordev 3y ago
      Sure, fair point, replace dollar with vote point…
- JonChesterfield 3y ago
  That's a business model, not a joke.
  - codingdave 3y ago
    A business model includes a transaction where one side gets value in exchange for returning value to the other side. When it is a one-sided transaction like this, where one side gives money and the other just pockets it... that is more often referred to as a "scam"
    - bogtog 3y ago
      No, both parties get value. Suppose a user would receive 1 utility for donating $1 to some cause in a traditional fashion (e.g., giving the charity money directly). Using this platform and with an OmniMatch of 25%, the user will effectively donate $1.25 for the cost of $1 and accordingly get 0.25 extra utility. The user gets surplus utility no matter what. The platform, on the other hand, needs to be careful in what markets it creates and how it sets OmniMatch, in order to make money.
    - JonChesterfield 3y ago
      One side gives money, and a fraction of that money goes to the intended cause, is referred to as "fundraising". One of the more dubious aspects of donating to a charity is that some of their resources are spent persuading other people to donate to them, in what looks like a strongly zero sum game for the sector as a whole. I think there's a credible chance the system outlined here would end up at a higher effective efficiency than the current state of the art of charity fundraising.
- orangecat 3y ago
  The joke is that there is something there. For example in a presidential election, I'm indifferent between my preferred candidate having $1 more and the opposing candidate having $1 less. If it were possible to honestly negotiate with my counterpart who supports the other candidate, we could either save our money or agree to both donate to a mutually agreeable charity, and everyone would be better off.
  - jnwatson 3y ago
    The US certainly spends a lot on elections, and one might debate whether that's too much or not. But what is certain is that campaign money contributes to the GDP. It funds a lot of salaries. I'd rather that money go to people instead of a faceless cryptofund. I think that's the joke.
    - orangecat 3y ago
      But what is certain is that campaign money contributes to the GDP. It funds a lot of salaries. This is the broken window fallacy. If you have two groups with diametrically opposed goals, giving them each more money to spend "increases GDP" in a local sense, but the result is that a bunch of people spend a lot of effort for a net result of zero, when it could have gone toward something useful. I'd rather that money go to people instead of a faceless cryptofund. I think that's the joke. Yeah, the crypto piece is just for additional silliness. For a real version of this you'd need, like, a spreadsheet with two columns.
skybrian 3y ago
If all proceeds went to charity, it could work as a snarky way to raise money for some other charity that’s boring but uncontroversial. It reminds me of the publicity stunts that Cards Against Humanity would do.
- orangecat 3y ago
  In all seriousness, this is an excellent idea.
codon 3y ago
> Add reporting for government agencies Way ahead of you—we're licensing Praxis Vector™ technology to Palantir. Thiel didn't buy a board seat for nothing.
koliber 3y ago
This is what lawyers are for. Instead of two companies actually competing, each spends a bunch of dollars on lawyers to fight in court. The one who spends the most dollars on lawyers wins. Just to be clear, there is a lot of sarcasm here. But I think there is a bit of truth too.
cyanydeez 3y ago
cancel culture is a meaningless phrase , it's just culture.
- jerf 3y ago
  "Cancel culture" may have been meaningless in the past, but now with the new Antidollars™, it literally exists. #include <original-post> Life moves fast.
  - reactordev 3y ago
    Culture 2.0 invokes meaningful change and collaboration on a scale never seen before. Protocols are faster, more robust, efficient by up to 35% versus previous generations. It’s the fastest we’ve ever produced and we didn’t stop there. We went deep to heart of the product to enhance even the most subtle of inefficiencies, rearchitecting the core from the ground up…
- genewitch 3y ago
  I suppose it's more that a culture that encourages actions that result in someone deemed unworthy experiencing negativity. Read as: don't say anything, ever*, anywhere that isn't droll corp-speak, because somebody, somewhere will have an issue with it and try to take you to task. If that somebody has a lot of followers, you could be out of a job/home/country/freedom. *trawling through post history et al to find narratives they don't agree with, too
  - cyanydeez 3y ago
    yes, and they used to behead kings. it's culture. culture shuns what it rejects and lifts up. Shame is even ritualistic in some cultures. it's definitely just a phrase used by the short end of the stick. I'm sure there's a nuanced view of a culture that doesn't dive deep enough and mistakes some virtue and accidentally avoids something of value. but ultimately, it's a term that's just respinniing what cultures do. they select memes and their purveyors and reject the to advance. evolution works both as species and as culture. we, the advanced scientific community have dropped the idea that evolution moves towards some greater good and just acknowledge evolution is adaptation to environment. lastly, culture is what people both adapt to and mold by their actions. with social media that's now basically an infinite fractal.

codingdave 3y ago

I know this is a joke, too, but I worry that you aren't seeing the joke if you think there is something here. This is a setup to take in dollars from everyone and arbitrage the sentiment difference across the userbase, effectively meaning they don't have to pay anything and just take the dollars home. That's the joke. And anyone who actually would put in dollars are who the joke would be being played upon were it real.

stevage 3y ago
Yeah but imagine if there was something like this for real, only the dollars weren't greedily kept, but spent in some way that people on both sides support. Like, maybe pro-choice and anti-abortion supporters would both support the excess money going to support new mothers or adoption programs.
- notahacker 3y ago
  Then imagine the incentives for campaigners to skip the two-sided prediction market and just spend their money on advertising directly to voters and lobbying politicians. Or the implications of implementing the only way to make this actually work by taking the pesky voters out of the decision process altogether and just letting the money decide the outcome...
  - priprimer 3y ago
    > letting the money decide the outcome some people call that data driven decision making and they like it others call it “skynet” and they fear it
  - gosub100 3y ago
    or they'd just shift the debate to why you shouldn't give money to the opposing party's cause: "they say the money is for ___, but really they do ____ with it".
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  There is a similar game that distributes more of the money to causes where people vote with their dollars and antidollars and the winning side gets 1-epsilon of it because the operator of the game requires vigorish. It's like poker with no cards. Ideally the winner puts in just a dollar more than the loser and they nearly double their donation. If the winner can't get enough information to do that and has to spend too much for the pot they end up making a huge unmatched contribution. The game makes sense to play if you're sure you will win but you don't want to start it if you think you won't.
  - reactordev 3y ago
    I believe I know this game. Strange how wording it this way makes way more sense.
reactordev 3y ago
I know but I was referring to just the concept of dollar vs anti-dollar. Not the payout or anything but just the idea that companies get X dollars where X is the sum of users who voted for them. Let the people decide. The reality is humans will find a way to make this corrupt.
- codingdave 3y ago
  But that doesn't let the people decide. That lets the people with spare dollars decide.
  - reactordev 3y ago
    Sure, fair point, replace dollar with vote point…
JonChesterfield 3y ago
That's a business model, not a joke.
- codingdave 3y ago
  A business model includes a transaction where one side gets value in exchange for returning value to the other side. When it is a one-sided transaction like this, where one side gives money and the other just pockets it... that is more often referred to as a "scam"
  - bogtog 3y ago
    No, both parties get value. Suppose a user would receive 1 utility for donating $1 to some cause in a traditional fashion (e.g., giving the charity money directly). Using this platform and with an OmniMatch of 25%, the user will effectively donate $1.25 for the cost of $1 and accordingly get 0.25 extra utility. The user gets surplus utility no matter what. The platform, on the other hand, needs to be careful in what markets it creates and how it sets OmniMatch, in order to make money.
  - JonChesterfield 3y ago
    One side gives money, and a fraction of that money goes to the intended cause, is referred to as "fundraising". One of the more dubious aspects of donating to a charity is that some of their resources are spent persuading other people to donate to them, in what looks like a strongly zero sum game for the sector as a whole. I think there's a credible chance the system outlined here would end up at a higher effective efficiency than the current state of the art of charity fundraising.
orangecat 3y ago
The joke is that there is something there. For example in a presidential election, I'm indifferent between my preferred candidate having $1 more and the opposing candidate having $1 less. If it were possible to honestly negotiate with my counterpart who supports the other candidate, we could either save our money or agree to both donate to a mutually agreeable charity, and everyone would be better off.
- jnwatson 3y ago
  The US certainly spends a lot on elections, and one might debate whether that's too much or not. But what is certain is that campaign money contributes to the GDP. It funds a lot of salaries. I'd rather that money go to people instead of a faceless cryptofund. I think that's the joke.
  - orangecat 3y ago
    But what is certain is that campaign money contributes to the GDP. It funds a lot of salaries. This is the broken window fallacy. If you have two groups with diametrically opposed goals, giving them each more money to spend "increases GDP" in a local sense, but the result is that a bunch of people spend a lot of effort for a net result of zero, when it could have gone toward something useful. I'd rather that money go to people instead of a faceless cryptofund. I think that's the joke. Yeah, the crypto piece is just for additional silliness. For a real version of this you'd need, like, a spreadsheet with two columns.

skybrian 3y ago

If all proceeds went to charity, it could work as a snarky way to raise money for some other charity that’s boring but uncontroversial. It reminds me of the publicity stunts that Cards Against Humanity would do.

orangecat 3y ago
In all seriousness, this is an excellent idea.

codon 3y ago

> Add reporting for government agencies Way ahead of you—we're licensing Praxis Vector™ technology to Palantir. Thiel didn't buy a board seat for nothing.

koliber 3y ago

This is what lawyers are for. Instead of two companies actually competing, each spends a bunch of dollars on lawyers to fight in court. The one who spends the most dollars on lawyers wins. Just to be clear, there is a lot of sarcasm here. But I think there is a bit of truth too.

cyanydeez 3y ago

cancel culture is a meaningless phrase , it's just culture.

jerf 3y ago
"Cancel culture" may have been meaningless in the past, but now with the new Antidollars™, it literally exists. #include <original-post> Life moves fast.
- reactordev 3y ago
  Culture 2.0 invokes meaningful change and collaboration on a scale never seen before. Protocols are faster, more robust, efficient by up to 35% versus previous generations. It’s the fastest we’ve ever produced and we didn’t stop there. We went deep to heart of the product to enhance even the most subtle of inefficiencies, rearchitecting the core from the ground up…
genewitch 3y ago
I suppose it's more that a culture that encourages actions that result in someone deemed unworthy experiencing negativity. Read as: don't say anything, ever*, anywhere that isn't droll corp-speak, because somebody, somewhere will have an issue with it and try to take you to task. If that somebody has a lot of followers, you could be out of a job/home/country/freedom. *trawling through post history et al to find narratives they don't agree with, too
- cyanydeez 3y ago
  yes, and they used to behead kings. it's culture. culture shuns what it rejects and lifts up. Shame is even ritualistic in some cultures. it's definitely just a phrase used by the short end of the stick. I'm sure there's a nuanced view of a culture that doesn't dive deep enough and mistakes some virtue and accidentally avoids something of value. but ultimately, it's a term that's just respinniing what cultures do. they select memes and their purveyors and reject the to advance. evolution works both as species and as culture. we, the advanced scientific community have dropped the idea that evolution moves towards some greater good and just acknowledge evolution is adaptation to environment. lastly, culture is what people both adapt to and mold by their actions. with social media that's now basically an infinite fractal.