4 ms·

Natural things can be immoral, and the “state of the market” has no impact on the morality of piracy. There is no justification for lying, misrepresentation, b

Natural things can be immoral, and the “state of the market” has no impact on the morality of piracy. There is no justification for lying, misrepresentation, breaking your word, or knowingly benefiting from ill gotten gains, given the immensely low stakes involved in listening to a particular song or watching a particular tv show.

gchamonlive 3y ago
Yes, that is all true and is also valid for the big businesses that lie, steal and use their weight to exploit society. I am glad we agree!
jampekka 3y ago
> knowingly benefiting from ill gotten gains Who decides what is "morally" ill gained? There's quite a good case that benefiting without work, e.g. through capital gains, is ill gained.
- WendyTheWillow 3y ago
  The social contract does. It would be bad if people throughout society just straight up ignored the concepts of ownership and copyright law, and all of the things you enjoy would not be made. However, by ignoring that and pirating it anyway, you're becoming a "free rider" who benefits from the contract but doesn't abide by it.
  - jampekka 3y ago
    The content of the social contract is whatever the members of the society accept. If a law is widely broken it's not really a part of the contract anymore. Profiting from ownership without working (free riding of its own) is a questionable and often questioned item of a social contract.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      >If a law is widely broken it's not really a part of the contract anymore. so rising physical theft over the pandemic means that stealing is legal? School shootings are going to be legal in the US overtime? What a horrible model for a social contract. >Profiting from ownership without working (free riding of its own) is a questionable and often questioned item of a social contract. Sure. But fact is that CEOs do do a lot of work to direct companies. We can question if that deserve whatever their pay is or their competency, but I hope no one thinks CEOs literally sit around doing nothing all day. Can we at least agree that burning a company down to the ground takes a non-zero effort?
      - jampekka 3y ago
        Law is not the same as the social contract. Stockholders profit from ownership. CEO's salary is a salary (although stock and options maybe not).
    - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
      > The content of the social contract is whatever the members of the society accept. No. The content of the social contract is whatever benefits those who adhere to the social contract. It's not a popular vote, what is good isn't up to what the most people think it is.

gchamonlive 3y ago

Yes, that is all true and is also valid for the big businesses that lie, steal and use their weight to exploit society. I am glad we agree!

jampekka 3y ago

> knowingly benefiting from ill gotten gains Who decides what is "morally" ill gained? There's quite a good case that benefiting without work, e.g. through capital gains, is ill gained.

WendyTheWillow 3y ago
The social contract does. It would be bad if people throughout society just straight up ignored the concepts of ownership and copyright law, and all of the things you enjoy would not be made. However, by ignoring that and pirating it anyway, you're becoming a "free rider" who benefits from the contract but doesn't abide by it.
- jampekka 3y ago
  The content of the social contract is whatever the members of the society accept. If a law is widely broken it's not really a part of the contract anymore. Profiting from ownership without working (free riding of its own) is a questionable and often questioned item of a social contract.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    >If a law is widely broken it's not really a part of the contract anymore. so rising physical theft over the pandemic means that stealing is legal? School shootings are going to be legal in the US overtime? What a horrible model for a social contract. >Profiting from ownership without working (free riding of its own) is a questionable and often questioned item of a social contract. Sure. But fact is that CEOs do do a lot of work to direct companies. We can question if that deserve whatever their pay is or their competency, but I hope no one thinks CEOs literally sit around doing nothing all day. Can we at least agree that burning a company down to the ground takes a non-zero effort?
    - jampekka 3y ago
      Law is not the same as the social contract. Stockholders profit from ownership. CEO's salary is a salary (although stock and options maybe not).
  - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
    > The content of the social contract is whatever the members of the society accept. No. The content of the social contract is whatever benefits those who adhere to the social contract. It's not a popular vote, what is good isn't up to what the most people think it is.