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> social contract 1. a contract is just an abstraction over a commitment to give it more salability. if every contract violation is a sin then so is me committ
by colinsane 3y ago
> social contract
1. a contract is just an abstraction over a commitment to give it more salability. if every contract violation is a sin then so is me committing to meet you for dinner tonight but canceling because i'm feeling under the weather.
2. show me this contract. where/when did i sign it, and was i under duress when i did so?
- WendyTheWillow 3y agoNo, that’s not how the social contract works. You “sign” it by being born into the society where it applies, and you refuse it by leaving that society.
- Juliate 3y agoThat's a very peculiar understanding of what a contract is, and even of what the ill-named implicit "social contract" is. There's the law, that applies upon everyone in a society. There are treaties that try to make laws from countries work together. No morality in that, just practical, time-tested and updated (and updatable) rules & codes. No need to leave a society to refuse and change its laws, hopefully.
- WendyTheWillow 3y agoMy man allow me to blow your mind: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/hobbes-moral/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/hobbes-moral/ This is neither my idea, nor is it peculiar in any way. It’s a term used to describe the agreement we all commit to in order to interact in a shared environment.
- colinsane 3y agogreat, now read his counterpart, Rousseau. these are both just stories, and in as much as their conclusions rely upon their assumptions about the "state of nature" they're both flawed: with every decade anthropologists unearth more of human history and find more evidence that neither portrayal comes close to representing the actual ways in which humans interacted at any point before or distant from the English society we and they knew.
- WendyTheWillow 3y agoUh, no. The social contract is not a "story" any more than supply/demand is a "story". It's an attempt to explain how something works, with a great deal of rigor and reasoning supporting its ideas.
- Juliate 3y agoOh yes it is. Everything is a story. Some work somehow, some not. Sometimes it mostly depends on the context and the delivery rather than the truth of it. Supply/demand is also a story/theory trying to model, imperfectly, a reality. Or several ones. They are both largely contextual, open to critique, and have been. Just take the time to enlarge your horizon, it makes it much more enjoyable and satisfying.
- WendyTheWillow 3y agoThe word "story" has a meaning that does not apply here. You are using the word incorrectly.
- Juliate 3y agoThat was not my point. :) I know what this is used for. It's still ill-named (you don't sign it, it would be a "de facto" instead), and still debatable a theory (which states that in an ideal, invented state of nature, without such a contract enforced by an authority, violence would be the natural relation between individuals). There's more (especially since the times of Hobbes) to describe how societies have functioned/could/should function. Social contract theory is not much more solid than the homo economicus one: it has its points, and its flaws.
- Capricorn2481 3y agoWould it blow your mind to know that this is the equivalent of linking a podcast?
- WendyTheWillow 3y agoAre podcasts peer reviewed?
- Capricorn2481 3y agoHow do you peer review an opinion
- WendyTheWillow 3y agoYou don't, social contract theory isn't an opinion.
- Capricorn2481 3y agoThis is literally just a description of someone's world view, you do not make it factual by slapping "theory" on the end
- WendyTheWillow 3y agoSorry but you're completely wrong. Social contract theory is many hundreds of years older than I am, and is extremely well argued by people many times smarter than I. None of this is my idea; your problem is with the strength of the argument, not with my "opinion".
- Juliate 3y agoThis is where you’re mislead. It IS a recent theory in the face of human history (and even more prehistory). Those people were NOT smarter than you are, or can be. You’re terribly limiting yourself and your capacity for understanding and growth thinking they were (it’s not about humility, but submission, there’s a nuance).
- colinsane 3y agothen i very clearly participate in this contract only on conditions of duress. i lack the means to "leave society" and exit this supposed contract without risking starvation or death from the elements: literal threats to my life. no court would enforce a literal contract entered into upon such conditions.
- WendyTheWillow 3y agoNone of this frees you from the contract, I’m afraid. Besides, it costs nothing to live as a hermit in the woods! But you probably quite like the benefits of the contract, e.g. all of society, so I bet you’ll stick around.
- colinsane 3y ago> Besides, it costs nothing to live as a hermit in the woods if i formally opt out of this "contract" (i.e. renounce my citizenship), then there are no woods i can recede to without being considered an illegal alien.
- WendyTheWillow 3y agoThat's a practical problem and a flaw in society, not a flaw in the concept.
- mopsi 3y agoGiven how few people among the general public ever cross paths with copyright law, and how common copyright infringements are in practice (eg posting a photo of a movie poster on Instagram or sharing a meme based on a shot from a TV show), I don't find your appeal to social contract very convincing. Many copyright provisions survive only because too few people are affected by them in practice. For example, publishing a photo of Eiffel tower at night is illegal in France, because the illumination is a work of art still under copyright protection. This does not mean universal acceptance of these provisions.