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It wouldn’t be a fallacy, it’d just be wrong, except it’s not wrong, and very basic concept that you can’t eat public goodwill demonstrates why. And the entire

It wouldn’t be a fallacy, it’d just be wrong, except it’s not wrong, and very basic concept that you can’t eat public goodwill demonstrates why. And the entire concept of property is built on monopoly. Are you saying you don’t believe in property?

Juliate 3y ago
Are you saying that there's no difference in nature between physical and immaterial? Or that intellectual property and physical property are the same, with the same working principles, and follow the same rules?
- WendyTheWillow 3y ago
  Nope!
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  There in fact are. And I think it's silly how people always resort to physical metaphors whenever the digital realities inconvenience them. And vice versa. Ditigal media isn't physical, and in this case the physical media was on a closed ecosystem and attached to a server to stream or at least check in to verify. You wouldn't need all this with a plain ol' DVD, but you got advantadeges in that that movie played on any PS device you logged into. If you want DRM free digital media, don't buy the above.
gchamonlive 3y ago
What are you talking about? A fallacy is a "mistaken belief", so of course it is wrong. And you should look more into the concept of free riding. For that a good introduction would be The philosophers arms episode about free riding. And what is that about private property? Where did that come from? We are talking about different concepts here, it is about markets and business models. As long as we don't honestly debate how outdated our modes of consumption are, piracy would be a natural response to artificial scarcity.
- WendyTheWillow 3y ago
  That’s not what a fallacy is defined as, and are you seriously unable to see how private property is relevant to copyright law?
  - gchamonlive 3y ago
    Rest assured, I am not defending piracy. Pointing out flawed reasoning is not the same as defending what it is criticising. My point is that piracy is a natural response to a predatory practice. And that is what I think, that the current state of how the market is configured is anticonsumer, and therefore piracy is a natural response to it. It's not a matter of who is right or wrong. Everything is less than ideal in this whole affair.
    - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
      Natural things can be immoral, and the “state of the market” has no impact on the morality of piracy. There is no justification for lying, misrepresentation, breaking your word, or knowingly benefiting from ill gotten gains, given the immensely low stakes involved in listening to a particular song or watching a particular tv show.
      - gchamonlive 3y ago
        Yes, that is all true and is also valid for the big businesses that lie, steal and use their weight to exploit society. I am glad we agree!
      - jampekka 3y ago
        > knowingly benefiting from ill gotten gains Who decides what is "morally" ill gained? There's quite a good case that benefiting without work, e.g. through capital gains, is ill gained.
        WendyTheWillow 3y ago
        The social contract does. It would be bad if people throughout society just straight up ignored the concepts of ownership and copyright law, and all of the things you enjoy would not be made. However, by ignoring that and pirating it anyway, you're becoming a "free rider" who benefits from the contract but doesn't abide by it.

Juliate 3y ago

Are you saying that there's no difference in nature between physical and immaterial? Or that intellectual property and physical property are the same, with the same working principles, and follow the same rules?

WendyTheWillow 3y ago
Nope!
johnnyanmac 3y ago
There in fact are. And I think it's silly how people always resort to physical metaphors whenever the digital realities inconvenience them. And vice versa. Ditigal media isn't physical, and in this case the physical media was on a closed ecosystem and attached to a server to stream or at least check in to verify. You wouldn't need all this with a plain ol' DVD, but you got advantadeges in that that movie played on any PS device you logged into. If you want DRM free digital media, don't buy the above.

gchamonlive 3y ago

What are you talking about? A fallacy is a "mistaken belief", so of course it is wrong. And you should look more into the concept of free riding. For that a good introduction would be The philosophers arms episode about free riding. And what is that about private property? Where did that come from? We are talking about different concepts here, it is about markets and business models. As long as we don't honestly debate how outdated our modes of consumption are, piracy would be a natural response to artificial scarcity.

WendyTheWillow 3y ago
That’s not what a fallacy is defined as, and are you seriously unable to see how private property is relevant to copyright law?
- gchamonlive 3y ago
  Rest assured, I am not defending piracy. Pointing out flawed reasoning is not the same as defending what it is criticising. My point is that piracy is a natural response to a predatory practice. And that is what I think, that the current state of how the market is configured is anticonsumer, and therefore piracy is a natural response to it. It's not a matter of who is right or wrong. Everything is less than ideal in this whole affair.
  - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
    Natural things can be immoral, and the “state of the market” has no impact on the morality of piracy. There is no justification for lying, misrepresentation, breaking your word, or knowingly benefiting from ill gotten gains, given the immensely low stakes involved in listening to a particular song or watching a particular tv show.
    - gchamonlive 3y ago
      Yes, that is all true and is also valid for the big businesses that lie, steal and use their weight to exploit society. I am glad we agree!
    - jampekka 3y ago
      > knowingly benefiting from ill gotten gains Who decides what is "morally" ill gained? There's quite a good case that benefiting without work, e.g. through capital gains, is ill gained.
      - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
        The social contract does. It would be bad if people throughout society just straight up ignored the concepts of ownership and copyright law, and all of the things you enjoy would not be made. However, by ignoring that and pirating it anyway, you're becoming a "free rider" who benefits from the contract but doesn't abide by it.