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Based on where things are at, I feel like there's legitimately no way to stop this. That said, there will be attempts to stop this, and that is something I'm al
by jjcm 3y ago
Based on where things are at, I feel like there's legitimately no way to stop this. That said, there will be attempts to stop this, and that is something I'm almost more scared about.
What laws will be made attempting to stop what likely can't be stopped?
- meheleventyone 3y agoThere are revenge porn laws. Making fake porn of a person and publicly distributing it could fall under that sort of legislation.
- scarface_74 3y agoPublicly distributing it is illegal. But creating it currently isn’t. And how do you make a reasonable law against the latter?
- zdragnar 3y agoSame as we have reasonable laws against possession and production of all sorts of illicit goods from meth to CSAM. There's nothing new here that couldn't be done manually before; all that has changed is the speed at which it can be done.
- dymk 3y agoBut the creation/use of CSAM and meth harm people other than the person using them. I don't see who's being harmed if a model is used to generate a nude image, and that image isn't distributed.
- concordDance 3y agoThe production and sale of CSAM and meth harms people, mere possession and consumption harms only the user.
- dymk 3y agoI don't think the analogy to generative models holds. The possession and consumption of meth and CSAM _drive_ production of meth and CSAM; it's a supply and demand market. So simply possessing it harms others as well. A generative model is different. You can produce as much content with it as you want, hallucinated out of thin air. The production of said content doesn't have externalities, other than electricity usage, if the content isn't distributed.
- concordDance 3y ago> The possession and consumption of meth and CSAM _drive_ production of meth and CSAM This is not true, its the buying of it that drives production. If you make your own meth or pirate CSAM then you would be harming only yourself.
- zdragnar 3y agoI wasn't making a qualitative comparison of the harms, merely responding to the question of what kinds of laws and enforcement mechanisms will be used to stop AI pornification of people. Simply put, I don't think we'll see anything we haven't seen before, because this isn't a new thing that hasn't been done before- only the means of production (using AI) is new.
- dymk 3y agoI responded with a little more detail to a sibling content, but if laws for banning CSAM and meth exist due to the negative externalities of possessing them - that's where I think this is different. If we see laws come about for regulating AI private-use content production, I suspect we'll see some unique court cases about it, premised around free speech / lack of harm.
- concordDance 3y agoThose are not reasonable laws.
- GoblinSlayer 3y agoPossession and production can be done in imagination. After all, it's just information.
- Clent 3y agoAnd yet both of them have thriving markets. The market for adults being undressed will dwarf both. I do not see any way a law will stop what is essentially math from being performed. While everyone is worried about job losses and Skynet, these sort of side effects of accessible AI will be what fundamentally shift society.
- meheleventyone 3y agoI mean murder is illegal and yet there are still murders. Ipso facto we should legalize murder forthwith! Checkmate pacifists!
- scarface_74 3y agoAll murders are non consensual how do you know if mudes are non consensual? Would it also be illegal to draw a nude picture of someone?
- meheleventyone 3y agoWe’re discussing non-consensual images.
- scarface_74 3y agoYes, so how do you determine whether an image on someone’s computer is consensual or non consensual? Where do you draw the line? If I draw an image that looks like someone and it’s only on my own computer?
- scarface_74 3y agoSo how do you determine if someone is in possession of non consensual nude pictures? We as a society properly assume that all underage nudity is non consensual because children can’t legally give consent to nice pictures
- Kon-Peki 3y agoI think that people can probably go after anyone marketing such tools: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38522650 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38522650
- scarface_74 3y agoAccording to the article, one of the largest purveyors markets it for use of “AI images”.
- ibejoeb 3y agoThis is stickier than that in the US. I can paint a realistic nude and it's expression. Whether my tool is a paintbrush or neural network, as far as I know right now, makes no difference. You might have some opportunity exploring a defamation action, but still, it's tenuous. I don't have an answer, but I think we're looking at constitutional battles.
- meheleventyone 3y agoVirginia for example has made it illegal.
- ibejoeb 3y agoYes, but I don't think it has survived a challenge. Has SCOTUS heard anything at all in this area yet? I didn't think so, but I could be wrong.
- meheleventyone 3y agoI'm not from the US but intuitive haven't most laws not been challenged and heard by the Supreme Court?
- GoblinSlayer 3y agoI think there are only a few such laws. Supreme Court also routinely denies to hear the case if it wasn't challenged enough elsewhere.
- meheleventyone 3y agoI mean most laws in the general rather than specific context. To be more obvious, I'm pointing out that just because the Supreme Court hasn't offered an opinion that that doesn't delegitimize the law. As otherwise there'd be thousands? of laws in a similar boat. For further comparison revenge porn laws also have a similar potential for a first amendment defense but thus far have weathered challenges.
- micromacrofoot 3y agoDoesn't seem so difficult? make it illegal to produce and distribute nude images of people without their consent. Enforcement can't be perfect, but neither are csam or revenge porn laws.
- boppo1 3y agoI think he means the attempts to prevent people from doing it privately without distribution.
- flappyeagle 3y agowhy would you want to do such a thing? clear 1st amendment situation
- micromacrofoot 3y agothat's a problem with tons of laws, I can cook meth at home but I'm unlikely to get caught until I start distributing
- makeitdouble 3y agoVery shortly you don't need to distribute the "nude" image though. The reference images just needs to be public with a one click way to get the tranformed result. If we really shorten that, it could all fit into an url with a parameter pointing to the original, and nobody's distributing a specific image, they're all privately generated.
- wvenable 3y agoWhen something like this becomes commonplace will society just sort of get over it. Fake nudes are fake. They only have power because of perceived taboo over the real thing.
- afavour 3y agoI dunno about that. If they get realistic enough that you can't differentiate between real and fake people will definitely use them to abuse, bully, etc.
- wvenable 3y agoWhatever the computer guesstimates as your nude body will always be an estimate. It cannot know what you actually look like under your clothes. Being able to differentiate real and fake isn't the point. An occasional nude is special. An occasional fake nude is special. An infinite number of fakes nudes might just stop having any real power to abuse. Sexuality is mostly in the mind and a real nude image has a element of fantasy that a fake doesn't have. The fact that it's just a made up bunch of pixels that has no real meaning in real life is a factor that we haven't yet fully experienced.
- nradov 3y agoI don't want society to "get over" highly realistic fake nudes of high school girls. We have to draw the line somewhere (although I'm not sure how to solve the problem). There have been many cases reported of such images being passed around schools as a form of harassment and bullying. Such incidents are highly damaging to the victims, sometimes essentially forcing them to transfer schools and in a few cases perhaps even contributing to suicides.
- GoblinSlayer 3y agoIf harassment is bad, then make harassment illegal.
- taylodl 3y ago
- karaterobot 3y agoPerhaps it is the case that our legislators, in their infinite wisdom, have dragged their feet on privacy issues precisely because they knew it would lead to this enforcement nightmare when AI was used to generatively breach our most basic personal boundaries. My god, this whole time I thought they were just corrupt and incompetent, but they were actually protecting us!
- GoblinSlayer 3y agoAny photo becomes potential porn, so it can be regulated with a photographer license. Likewise any unlicensed photographer becomes illegal.
- throwyaway2023 3y ago[flagged]