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I wish paid apps had a 24-hour return window or something like that. It feels like it would be a win-win for everyone, as users would feel more comfortable taki

I wish paid apps had a 24-hour return window or something like that. It feels like it would be a win-win for everyone, as users would feel more comfortable taking a chance on paid apps. I vaguely remember the Google Play Store (before it had that name) having something like this, never understood why they got rid of it. They must have concluded it made the store less profitable, but I wonder what data they were looking at, or if they interpreted it correctly.

msh 3y ago
Some people abused it to play games for free and then use the return window
fermuch 3y ago
In Brazil we have a right to return online orders in the 7 days of the purchase. I assume this is covered (I'm not sure). Steam does return the game if you have less than 3 hours in it.
ishanjain28 3y ago
Play store still has this and the return window is 15 minutes. A refund button will appear on the application page in play store if you uninstall the app within the 15 minute period after purchasing. Apple on the other hand unfortunately has nothing like that. If you want refund, You have to go through the hassle of creating a ticket and they may refuse to refund for whatever reason.
- pockybum522 3y ago
  15 minutes is such a strange period. "Hey sorry if this is a complex app you might get through most of setting it up. Good luck"
  - freedomben 3y ago
    Agreed. I think they started it because people would grab a paid app for a one-time need and then return it after using. I saw this happen a couple times with an app that identified plants from a picture, another that scanned and removed apps that show full-screen ads, and a couple others, so the use case makes sense. But still I think it's a mistake because 15 mins is not enough time to know if the app is going to work. Sometimes it takes that long just to get the damn thing installed! Especially if on a mobile connection or the app is big. I once got screwed because I bought an app that didn't work on my device, but I couldn't find out within 15 minutes because my storage was too full and the Play store refused to install it until I cleared out more room. It took a while to go through all my stuff and back them up to the cloud, so by the time I actually got the app installed and found out it didn't work, it had been 20 minutes or so. Now I'm very hesitant.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - zare_st 3y ago
      If someone is good with using it just once he wouldn't pay anyway. A 1 day return period should be enough. Once you return the product you cannot trial it again without purchase.
      - freedomben 3y ago
        Strong points. In addition to being better for the real paying customers, it also has anti-abuse protection baked in. Seems like a no-brainer to me to go with a 24 hour return period
      - graftak 3y ago
        That might hurt game sales fundamentally if they can be completed within that time frame. If there’s gonna be a short timer it should start the moment the app is first opened instead of the purchase time.
        Wowfunhappy 3y ago
        Just give games and applications different rules. They're both software, but one is an artistic work, and one is a tool.
  - neurostimulant 3y ago
    IIRC a long time ago, game devs would complain to google about people abusing refund policy by buying their games, complete the whole playthrough in a day, then requesting refund. This was before in-app purchase become the norm though, so you can buy full games upfront instead of unlocking it bit by bit via in-app purchases.
- FredPret 3y ago
  They may refuse, but do they ever? I’ve refunded many apps, days after purchase, no issues.
  - ishanjain28 3y ago
    Yes, they have refused it a few times.
- jrockway 3y ago
  I think the workaround in the Apple community is to make the app free, and then have an in-app purchase for the full version. This often has a free trial. As an example, I recently tried a sleep tracking app. It is a subscription service but has a 1 week free trial. I tried it for a few nights, hated the mechanics of making it work, so I canceled the free trial and uninstalled the app. $0 spent on a paid app, completely supported by Apple. It should be something available by default, but the workarounds seem pretty widespread. The advantage of this approach is that many developers offer "pay per month" or "pay a lot once" for their paid apps. The user can choose which one they like better.
RDaneel0livaw 3y ago
I so do too. Because apple does NOT have this, I'm wary when purchasing stuff on the app store. I was burned a while back buying a game that was a blatant lie, it was an idler and literally didn't have the gameplay elements it said it did, but I could not return it. I love the steam style return policy. Wish everyone adopted that.
- jrmg 3y ago
  Did you try to return it? “doesn’t work as expected” Is one of the ‘template’ return reasons for the App Store. I haven’t requested a refund for apps many times, but when I have they’ve always been granted. The place to do it is https://reportaproblem.apple.com/ https://reportaproblem.apple.com/
  - rcarr 3y ago
    I can second this, when I was in the Apple ecosystem I bought and returned many apps without issue. They might have a problem with it if you leave it too long but if you request within 48 hours of purchase you should be fine.
TheRoque 3y ago
It's true. Steam has a no-questions-asked refund that works up to 2 hours of playtime, and it seems to work great. Download a game, doesn't run, or the game is bad ? Just refund. Not sure if it would work for apps though, as games are by nature something that are meant to be played for hours in front of your screen. I don't know what would be the metric used to refund and app or not.
- crote 3y ago
  Yup, two hours of actual playtime sounds like a pretty fair window to me. Sure, some people are making YT vids where they complete an entire game and return it within 2 hours, but that's not enough to actually matter. For a utility-like phone app something like 30 minutes might be more reasonable, but the same principle applies.
- Wowfunhappy 3y ago
  I actually don't like this one, because it means you effectively can't make a game with an expected playtime of less than two hours. Yes, most video games are designed to be significantly longer, but as long as the expected runtime is communicated to the consumer, there's nothing inherently wrong with designing shorter experiences. Applications and games are very different, however. An application should be useful to you across a long-ish time window.
  - spencerflem 3y ago
    I still like it, I've used it several times for games that either ran horribly, or after 30 minutes just weren't any fun. Makes it so buying a game isn't a risk at all. I've played 2 hour games, and if it was a good time I'm not going to return it. I don't think most people want to cheat indie devs, they're a very sympathetic group
darkerside 3y ago
This is a big part of the success of Prime. They exceeded expectations on the returns process for long enough that people got used to it and came to expect it. Waiting for the inevitable rug pull...
- stronglikedan 3y ago
  > inevitable rug pull I don't think it's inevitable. If it hasn't happened by now, it likely won't happen. An entire industry has sprung up around Prime returns. E.g., HOTBINS.
  - toast0 3y ago
    Well, it's not a rug pull, but the slide towards uncurated garbage makes prime less useful than it once was. When I find myself shopping at Walmart to get the value of their curation, I have to wonder about how Amazon has changed.

msh 3y ago

Some people abused it to play games for free and then use the return window

fermuch 3y ago

In Brazil we have a right to return online orders in the 7 days of the purchase. I assume this is covered (I'm not sure). Steam does return the game if you have less than 3 hours in it.

ishanjain28 3y ago

Play store still has this and the return window is 15 minutes. A refund button will appear on the application page in play store if you uninstall the app within the 15 minute period after purchasing. Apple on the other hand unfortunately has nothing like that. If you want refund, You have to go through the hassle of creating a ticket and they may refuse to refund for whatever reason.

pockybum522 3y ago
15 minutes is such a strange period. "Hey sorry if this is a complex app you might get through most of setting it up. Good luck"
- freedomben 3y ago
  Agreed. I think they started it because people would grab a paid app for a one-time need and then return it after using. I saw this happen a couple times with an app that identified plants from a picture, another that scanned and removed apps that show full-screen ads, and a couple others, so the use case makes sense. But still I think it's a mistake because 15 mins is not enough time to know if the app is going to work. Sometimes it takes that long just to get the damn thing installed! Especially if on a mobile connection or the app is big. I once got screwed because I bought an app that didn't work on my device, but I couldn't find out within 15 minutes because my storage was too full and the Play store refused to install it until I cleared out more room. It took a while to go through all my stuff and back them up to the cloud, so by the time I actually got the app installed and found out it didn't work, it had been 20 minutes or so. Now I'm very hesitant.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - zare_st 3y ago
    If someone is good with using it just once he wouldn't pay anyway. A 1 day return period should be enough. Once you return the product you cannot trial it again without purchase.
    - freedomben 3y ago
      Strong points. In addition to being better for the real paying customers, it also has anti-abuse protection baked in. Seems like a no-brainer to me to go with a 24 hour return period
    - graftak 3y ago
      That might hurt game sales fundamentally if they can be completed within that time frame. If there’s gonna be a short timer it should start the moment the app is first opened instead of the purchase time.
      - Wowfunhappy 3y ago
        Just give games and applications different rules. They're both software, but one is an artistic work, and one is a tool.
- neurostimulant 3y ago
  IIRC a long time ago, game devs would complain to google about people abusing refund policy by buying their games, complete the whole playthrough in a day, then requesting refund. This was before in-app purchase become the norm though, so you can buy full games upfront instead of unlocking it bit by bit via in-app purchases.
FredPret 3y ago
They may refuse, but do they ever? I’ve refunded many apps, days after purchase, no issues.
- ishanjain28 3y ago
  Yes, they have refused it a few times.
jrockway 3y ago
I think the workaround in the Apple community is to make the app free, and then have an in-app purchase for the full version. This often has a free trial. As an example, I recently tried a sleep tracking app. It is a subscription service but has a 1 week free trial. I tried it for a few nights, hated the mechanics of making it work, so I canceled the free trial and uninstalled the app. $0 spent on a paid app, completely supported by Apple. It should be something available by default, but the workarounds seem pretty widespread. The advantage of this approach is that many developers offer "pay per month" or "pay a lot once" for their paid apps. The user can choose which one they like better.

RDaneel0livaw 3y ago

I so do too. Because apple does NOT have this, I'm wary when purchasing stuff on the app store. I was burned a while back buying a game that was a blatant lie, it was an idler and literally didn't have the gameplay elements it said it did, but I could not return it. I love the steam style return policy. Wish everyone adopted that.

jrmg 3y ago
Did you try to return it? “doesn’t work as expected” Is one of the ‘template’ return reasons for the App Store. I haven’t requested a refund for apps many times, but when I have they’ve always been granted. The place to do it is https://reportaproblem.apple.com/ https://reportaproblem.apple.com/
- rcarr 3y ago
  I can second this, when I was in the Apple ecosystem I bought and returned many apps without issue. They might have a problem with it if you leave it too long but if you request within 48 hours of purchase you should be fine.

TheRoque 3y ago

It's true. Steam has a no-questions-asked refund that works up to 2 hours of playtime, and it seems to work great. Download a game, doesn't run, or the game is bad ? Just refund. Not sure if it would work for apps though, as games are by nature something that are meant to be played for hours in front of your screen. I don't know what would be the metric used to refund and app or not.

crote 3y ago
Yup, two hours of actual playtime sounds like a pretty fair window to me. Sure, some people are making YT vids where they complete an entire game and return it within 2 hours, but that's not enough to actually matter. For a utility-like phone app something like 30 minutes might be more reasonable, but the same principle applies.
Wowfunhappy 3y ago
I actually don't like this one, because it means you effectively can't make a game with an expected playtime of less than two hours. Yes, most video games are designed to be significantly longer, but as long as the expected runtime is communicated to the consumer, there's nothing inherently wrong with designing shorter experiences. Applications and games are very different, however. An application should be useful to you across a long-ish time window.
- spencerflem 3y ago
  I still like it, I've used it several times for games that either ran horribly, or after 30 minutes just weren't any fun. Makes it so buying a game isn't a risk at all. I've played 2 hour games, and if it was a good time I'm not going to return it. I don't think most people want to cheat indie devs, they're a very sympathetic group

darkerside 3y ago

This is a big part of the success of Prime. They exceeded expectations on the returns process for long enough that people got used to it and came to expect it. Waiting for the inevitable rug pull...

stronglikedan 3y ago
> inevitable rug pull I don't think it's inevitable. If it hasn't happened by now, it likely won't happen. An entire industry has sprung up around Prime returns. E.g., HOTBINS.
- toast0 3y ago
  Well, it's not a rug pull, but the slide towards uncurated garbage makes prime less useful than it once was. When I find myself shopping at Walmart to get the value of their curation, I have to wonder about how Amazon has changed.