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You are not the only one! Significant amount of people who like BG2 are not happy with "Divinity: Forgotten Realms" (renamed to BG3 for cash-grab reasons). > T

You are not the only one! Significant amount of people who like BG2 are not happy with "Divinity: Forgotten Realms" (renamed to BG3 for cash-grab reasons). > The reddit-style humor (like the "poop knife") was just completely inappropriate. Larian games tend to do this. Note that intersection of sets of people who worked on BGs 2 and 3 is most likely an empty set.

jncfhnb 3y ago
That’s a weird set of complaints. Yes of course it’s a separate group of people. It’s a very long time apart and completely different studios. I would rather complain that it wasn’t more like divinity. Divinity’s game design was vastly superior to 5e. But it clearly is a BG sequel. The plot connections are pretty strong. Perhaps more than ought to have been expected
- D13Fd 3y ago
  That’s the camp I’m in. DnD 5e feels pretty shallow compared to the DOS:2 system.
- caskstrength 3y ago
  > That’s a weird set of complaints. I didn't list any complains besides perhaps commenting on Larian's humor. > The plot connections are pretty strong. Perhaps more than ought to have been expected The plot has been concluded in ToB. Just sprinkling around random NPCs from previous games doesn't make it a sequel.
  - jncfhnb 3y ago
    Have you… actually played the game to its completion?
    - caskstrength 3y ago
      Have you... actually played ToB to completion? At the end it shows you the epilogue explaining _exactly_ what happens to all your companions (spoiler alert: Minsc doesn't become a statue in Baldur's Gate). Cameos, forced tie-ins and straight up alternations of story lines of previous games doesn't make it a sequel.
- tmtvl 3y ago
  > Divinity’s game design was vastly superior to 5e. Sure. But if it's Baldur's Gate, why isn't it 2nd Edition AD&D? It's far superior to Divinity, it's what we expect from BG, and it would win points for nostalgia reasons.
  - disgruntledphd2 3y ago
    > Sure. But if it's Baldur's Gate, why isn't it 2nd Edition AD&D? It's far superior to Divinity, it's what we expect from BG, and it would win points for nostalgia reasons. As bad as 5E, 2nd is far, far worse. There's basically nothing for martial characters to do any round. Shoulda rolled a wizard. Hope you like making save or die rolls in high level play.
    - okasaki 3y ago
      That's why you have six characters...
      - jncfhnb 3y ago
        Bad logic. Strength archetypal characters should be fun.
  - piaste 3y ago
    Nostalgia is literally the only thing AD&D has going for it - it's a clunky, incoherent, and thoroughly unbalanced mess, designed when tabletop gaming was only a decade or two old. We've had 35 years of experience with tabletop and CRPGs since then, both with systems that tried to stick closer to D&D and with ones that tried new things altogether. The Divinity system isn't perfect by any means, but I can't imagine how rose-tinted your glasses must be to think that THAC0 and the golden age of Linear Fighter, Quadratic Wizard are better.
D13Fd 3y ago
I don’t think it’s fair to blame Larian though. They got the IP and delivered a Larian-style spin on it. Having them try to pretend to be 1990s/2000s-era Bioware would have been a disaster (even today’s Bioware wouldn’t be able to do that).
- caskstrength 3y ago
  > I don’t think it’s fair to blame Larian though. They got the IP and delivered a Larian-style spin on it. I think it is. They should have refused the "3" in the name, then it would be completely fine (we already had Dark Alliance).
- account42 3y ago
  They could choose not to get the IP if its not something they can treat with respect. Getting it anyway and shitting on the previous games makes this a cash grab.
  - davidivadavid 3y ago
    That sounds like the most complicated cash grab of all time. As a fan of the original games, I couldn't be happier with what Larian did with the IP.
  - piaste 3y ago
    Treating with respect != slavishly mimicking a previous studio's effort. Just because there's a '3' in the name doesn't mean it should feel like a clone of '2', especially when the studio changes. Dune II was a completely different game from Dune. GTA 3 was completely different from GTA 1/2. Armored Core. Max Payne. Wasteland. Sports game and certain shooters are widely mocked (among nerds) for being basically identical release after release.
    - account42 3y ago
      > Treating with respect != slavishly mimicking a previous studio's effort. Absolutely is if you are pretending to make a sequel to someone else's game. > Just because there's a '3' in the name doesn't mean it should feel like a clone of '2', especially when the studio changes. You got that the wrong way around. The original team wanting to go in a different direction is one thing. But a completely different studio wanting to create something very different from the original game should just do that and create a separate game instead of a purpoted sequel. So yes, a different studio being given the license for the sequel (which is already a very questionable practice that rights holders should be called out for) should strive to mimick the feel of the original game very closely. > Sports game and certain shooters are widely mocked (among nerds) for being basically identical release after release. What an absurd comparison. Literally taking the infinity engine with BG2 systems and creating a new campaign with that would not even be close to the yearly EA rereleases. And no, I'm not saying that there can't be any changes at all but Larian went well beyond what would be needed to update the game for $current_year audience.
izacus 3y ago
Well, those people can play Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteus, which is essentially in spirit, storytelling, world and presentation very close to original BG1 and BG2. It launched in 2021. It's amazing that we have two great games that modernize the formula in different ways - Pathfinder showing how to do the old style with modern tech and BG3 interpreting it.
- caskstrength 3y ago
  What it the point of your patronizing comment? "Those people" do play PF, PoE, Tyranny, etc. Doesn't mean we can't criticize Larian for the cash grab.
  - izacus 3y ago
    I'm not sure what's patronizing about it? We got two great games in last two years for both types of players - the ones that want old-school approach and the ones that want a modern approach. Both games are well reviewed and great to play. And that doesn't even include all the other games you've mentioned (or Larians previous Divinity games) or Solasta or others... we're in golden age of CRPGs again. Also, "cash grab"? Huh?

jncfhnb 3y ago

That’s a weird set of complaints. Yes of course it’s a separate group of people. It’s a very long time apart and completely different studios. I would rather complain that it wasn’t more like divinity. Divinity’s game design was vastly superior to 5e. But it clearly is a BG sequel. The plot connections are pretty strong. Perhaps more than ought to have been expected

D13Fd 3y ago
That’s the camp I’m in. DnD 5e feels pretty shallow compared to the DOS:2 system.
caskstrength 3y ago
> That’s a weird set of complaints. I didn't list any complains besides perhaps commenting on Larian's humor. > The plot connections are pretty strong. Perhaps more than ought to have been expected The plot has been concluded in ToB. Just sprinkling around random NPCs from previous games doesn't make it a sequel.
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  Have you… actually played the game to its completion?
  - caskstrength 3y ago
    Have you... actually played ToB to completion? At the end it shows you the epilogue explaining _exactly_ what happens to all your companions (spoiler alert: Minsc doesn't become a statue in Baldur's Gate). Cameos, forced tie-ins and straight up alternations of story lines of previous games doesn't make it a sequel.
tmtvl 3y ago
> Divinity’s game design was vastly superior to 5e. Sure. But if it's Baldur's Gate, why isn't it 2nd Edition AD&D? It's far superior to Divinity, it's what we expect from BG, and it would win points for nostalgia reasons.
- disgruntledphd2 3y ago
  > Sure. But if it's Baldur's Gate, why isn't it 2nd Edition AD&D? It's far superior to Divinity, it's what we expect from BG, and it would win points for nostalgia reasons. As bad as 5E, 2nd is far, far worse. There's basically nothing for martial characters to do any round. Shoulda rolled a wizard. Hope you like making save or die rolls in high level play.
  - okasaki 3y ago
    That's why you have six characters...
    - jncfhnb 3y ago
      Bad logic. Strength archetypal characters should be fun.
- piaste 3y ago
  Nostalgia is literally the only thing AD&D has going for it - it's a clunky, incoherent, and thoroughly unbalanced mess, designed when tabletop gaming was only a decade or two old. We've had 35 years of experience with tabletop and CRPGs since then, both with systems that tried to stick closer to D&D and with ones that tried new things altogether. The Divinity system isn't perfect by any means, but I can't imagine how rose-tinted your glasses must be to think that THAC0 and the golden age of Linear Fighter, Quadratic Wizard are better.

D13Fd 3y ago

I don’t think it’s fair to blame Larian though. They got the IP and delivered a Larian-style spin on it. Having them try to pretend to be 1990s/2000s-era Bioware would have been a disaster (even today’s Bioware wouldn’t be able to do that).

caskstrength 3y ago
> I don’t think it’s fair to blame Larian though. They got the IP and delivered a Larian-style spin on it. I think it is. They should have refused the "3" in the name, then it would be completely fine (we already had Dark Alliance).
account42 3y ago
They could choose not to get the IP if its not something they can treat with respect. Getting it anyway and shitting on the previous games makes this a cash grab.
- davidivadavid 3y ago
  That sounds like the most complicated cash grab of all time. As a fan of the original games, I couldn't be happier with what Larian did with the IP.
- piaste 3y ago
  Treating with respect != slavishly mimicking a previous studio's effort. Just because there's a '3' in the name doesn't mean it should feel like a clone of '2', especially when the studio changes. Dune II was a completely different game from Dune. GTA 3 was completely different from GTA 1/2. Armored Core. Max Payne. Wasteland. Sports game and certain shooters are widely mocked (among nerds) for being basically identical release after release.
  - account42 3y ago
    > Treating with respect != slavishly mimicking a previous studio's effort. Absolutely is if you are pretending to make a sequel to someone else's game. > Just because there's a '3' in the name doesn't mean it should feel like a clone of '2', especially when the studio changes. You got that the wrong way around. The original team wanting to go in a different direction is one thing. But a completely different studio wanting to create something very different from the original game should just do that and create a separate game instead of a purpoted sequel. So yes, a different studio being given the license for the sequel (which is already a very questionable practice that rights holders should be called out for) should strive to mimick the feel of the original game very closely. > Sports game and certain shooters are widely mocked (among nerds) for being basically identical release after release. What an absurd comparison. Literally taking the infinity engine with BG2 systems and creating a new campaign with that would not even be close to the yearly EA rereleases. And no, I'm not saying that there can't be any changes at all but Larian went well beyond what would be needed to update the game for $current_year audience.

izacus 3y ago

Well, those people can play Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteus, which is essentially in spirit, storytelling, world and presentation very close to original BG1 and BG2. It launched in 2021. It's amazing that we have two great games that modernize the formula in different ways - Pathfinder showing how to do the old style with modern tech and BG3 interpreting it.

caskstrength 3y ago
What it the point of your patronizing comment? "Those people" do play PF, PoE, Tyranny, etc. Doesn't mean we can't criticize Larian for the cash grab.
- izacus 3y ago
  I'm not sure what's patronizing about it? We got two great games in last two years for both types of players - the ones that want old-school approach and the ones that want a modern approach. Both games are well reviewed and great to play. And that doesn't even include all the other games you've mentioned (or Larians previous Divinity games) or Solasta or others... we're in golden age of CRPGs again. Also, "cash grab"? Huh?