4 ms·

Could it be that they are mandated by law, like the French banking sector for credit scoring, to use an interpretable method?

by benob 3y ago

fmajid 3y ago
The EU as a whole requires models used for automated decision-making to be interpretable, and logistic regression is highly so. Benefits fraud is a big problem in France, and this investigation shows an agency doing its job properly.
- orwin 3y ago
  The social fraud in France, combining all type of social fraud, is estimated at 1.1 billions (probably more, because Healthcare fraud is massively underestimated and growing, due to private clinics helping a lot with producing misleading claims and documents, but considering The total healthcare budget, it cannot be that much higher). Corporate tax fraud is 27 billions Social security contribution fraud is estimated at 14 billions (to compare to 200millions for the share of social security fraud) Income tax fraud is 17 billions (and wages are automatically declared, so this fraud is mostly on non-work income).
  - CalRobert 3y ago
    Perhaps it's related to visibility and a feeling of "fairness". I completely understand all of the things you wrote, and the corporate tax fraud is a MUCH bigger problem. But for some reason when my neighbour told me she'd been lying about not being able to work for the last 12 years so she could collect Jobseeker's allowance (basically "unemployment insurance" for those in the US) it really stung and felt like I, personally, was paying for her. I got a lot more conservative after I moved to the countryside and realized how casual fraud and tax evasion were (I was routinely asked to pay for several-thousand-euro jobs in cash, and tradespeople balked at me for wanting a receipt)
    - orwin 3y ago
      Ahah, i'm from the countryside, I know what you're talking about. Weirdly, social contribution fraud and income tax fraud ('travail au noir') is present in really big cities (mostly because the cost of getting caught is quite low compared to the margin of construction business in Paris/Lyon), and in rural areas, because no one ever check (it's changing, slowly). >> felt like I, personally, was paying for her. You also helped found Vlc, and probably half of the French startups that exist today. I agree that this is not fair (I do not ask for insurance when I'm in between jobs, because I have the means to ignore it now), but also, it will last two year at most.
      - CalRobert 3y ago
        Well, I was in Ireland, not France, but it sounds similar. I think the main difference is that when I hear my neighbour committing fraud, I think "well why the hell am I not doing that too?", but when I hear about a big company doing it, I don't feel like I could be doing the same. Funny enough, I _did_ recently move to the Netherlands and found myself as the director of both an Irish and a Dutch company at the same time. I briefly looked in to Base Erosion and Profit Shifting (Dutch Sandwich, etc.) but suffice it to say as the only employee of both of these companies I didn't have the scale to make it worth the trouble.

Could it be that they are mandated by law, like the French banking sector for credit scoring, to use an interpretable method?

by benob 3y ago

Could it be that they are mandated by law, like the French banking sector for credit scoring, to use an interpretable method?

fmajid 3y ago

The EU as a whole requires models used for automated decision-making to be interpretable, and logistic regression is highly so. Benefits fraud is a big problem in France, and this investigation shows an agency doing its job properly.

orwin 3y ago
The social fraud in France, combining all type of social fraud, is estimated at 1.1 billions (probably more, because Healthcare fraud is massively underestimated and growing, due to private clinics helping a lot with producing misleading claims and documents, but considering The total healthcare budget, it cannot be that much higher). Corporate tax fraud is 27 billions Social security contribution fraud is estimated at 14 billions (to compare to 200millions for the share of social security fraud) Income tax fraud is 17 billions (and wages are automatically declared, so this fraud is mostly on non-work income).
- CalRobert 3y ago
  Perhaps it's related to visibility and a feeling of "fairness". I completely understand all of the things you wrote, and the corporate tax fraud is a MUCH bigger problem. But for some reason when my neighbour told me she'd been lying about not being able to work for the last 12 years so she could collect Jobseeker's allowance (basically "unemployment insurance" for those in the US) it really stung and felt like I, personally, was paying for her. I got a lot more conservative after I moved to the countryside and realized how casual fraud and tax evasion were (I was routinely asked to pay for several-thousand-euro jobs in cash, and tradespeople balked at me for wanting a receipt)
  - orwin 3y ago
    Ahah, i'm from the countryside, I know what you're talking about. Weirdly, social contribution fraud and income tax fraud ('travail au noir') is present in really big cities (mostly because the cost of getting caught is quite low compared to the margin of construction business in Paris/Lyon), and in rural areas, because no one ever check (it's changing, slowly). >> felt like I, personally, was paying for her. You also helped found Vlc, and probably half of the French startups that exist today. I agree that this is not fair (I do not ask for insurance when I'm in between jobs, because I have the means to ignore it now), but also, it will last two year at most.
    - CalRobert 3y ago
      Well, I was in Ireland, not France, but it sounds similar. I think the main difference is that when I hear my neighbour committing fraud, I think "well why the hell am I not doing that too?", but when I hear about a big company doing it, I don't feel like I could be doing the same. Funny enough, I _did_ recently move to the Netherlands and found myself as the director of both an Irish and a Dutch company at the same time. I briefly looked in to Base Erosion and Profit Shifting (Dutch Sandwich, etc.) but suffice it to say as the only employee of both of these companies I didn't have the scale to make it worth the trouble.