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Average distance to a supermarket in Amsterdam is 400 meter or 1300 feet
- 2Gkashmiri 3y agoin india, that is your local grocery store. every street has them. of all kinds, stocking different things, sometimes similar things. these give employment to a huge number of people who are simple passive shopkeepers, they do not do any advertising, do not have to raise loans (though some do) or "invest" in anything exotic. just their stock in hand. since the "concentration" of power is distributed, everyone owns their own shop and nothing more. majority of the shops don't even have an employee. the owner/family does the whole thing. (mom and pop store) what this does is, there are no shareholders to satisfy, no shoplifting at the scale it becomes a problem for corps and employees don't care. this model should be adopted elsewhere too, the opposite of going hyperscale
- anovikov 3y agoThis model also means using of lots and lots of labor because sales volume of those shops is very small and it keeps entire family occupied. It means those people are unavailable for other productive activities. The world is entering labor shortage zone that will last for as long as we don't figure how to fix reproduction without abandoning human rights (which isn't an option anyway because there are many countries and people can vote with their feet). Economic models that are as efficient as possible and above all, labor efficient, are thus highly preferrable. It's very likely we will see totally unmanned chain convenience stores soon.
- justworkout 3y agoCountries have a labor shortage while simultaneously having overemployment with people doing pointless jobs, or people desperately searching for jobs and hundreds of people applying to the same positions. People who "graduate" from working at a grocery store and putting money in their own pockets often end up sitting at a computer doing nothing but scrolling through the internet and putting money in their employer's pockets. Corner grocery stores aren't really a problem.
- beaeglebeach 3y agoThe real question is not whether they are a problem but why such wildly inefficient systems exist, and the answer is likely a factor in the desperation.
- throw_pm23 3y agoFunny how it is claimed simultaneously that we enter labor shortage zone and there not being any meaningful jobs for people to do.
- AlexandrB 3y ago> The world is entering labor shortage zone Labor for what? Labelling training data?
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- Der_Einzige 3y agoYou’re being downvoted because you’re right and HNs user base hates to hear the truth.
- DeathArrow 3y agoI would gladly take small, diverse stores who sell local products over big supermarket chains. Unfortunately, in most big cities in EU this is not an option, anymore.
- DanielHB 3y agoMom and pop grocery stores hardly ever sell different products from the supermarket. They will have less product diversity, higher prices and less fresh stock of perishables (vegetables, etc). They work out best if they specialise in less in-demand items, like asian stores or fruit stores (where freshness of produce is their sole goal). But at the same time these simply can't exist every few blocks or so by the nature of being specialised.
- DeathArrow 3y ago>Mom and pop grocery stores hardly ever sell different products from the supermarket That might depend upon your locale.
- ffgjgf1 3y agoI guess it depends whether supermarkets exist in that locale. Since they could never compete selling the same type of products
- ffgjgf1 3y agoExcept the user in the comment above is describing stores which sell the same products as supermarkets just at higher prices and less inventory. > small, diverse stores who sell local products over big supermarket chains. Unfortunately, in most big cities in EU I guess it depends but where I am more upscale areas are full of such shops. Even right next to large supermarkets. They do fine because they offer niche/specialized products at much higher prices, to people who are willing to pay X times more for grass feed ultra organic beef raised in a “small farm” with the deceased cow’s former exact former address on the packaging than for factory processed anonymous beef imported from some “inferior” country.. However while superficially these might seem similar to family owned corner grocery in economically less developed countries they are almost nothing alike.
- hliyan 3y agoSri Lanka chiming in: this was the case when I was growing up. Two corner stores within 50 meters of my home. Personal relationship with both owners (they set aside my favourite paper, advised me on razors when I started shaving). Now that has been lost with supermarkets. It's all very convenient with a lot of choice, but something has been lost. Something experiential that can't be boiled down to KPIs.
- ffgjgf1 3y ago> model should be adopted elsewhere too, the opposite of going hyperscale So you are saying there were no grocery stores in the US before Piggly Wiggly opened up? It was the model that preceded the current one throughout the western world. It clearly failed because it couldn’t compete with the efficiency (and much better customer experience and prices) provided by supermarkets. It wouldn’t work without imposing some artificial limitations (as is the case in quite a few European cities) which have a significant productivity cost.
- 082349872349872 3y agoLast place I lived in the US still had corner markets (in the 1990s), because the neighbourhood predated cars. OTOH I once worked in a city there that was younger than I was, and it was a disaster: nothing but drives to franchise "concepts", and had there been anyplace to walk to, there weren't even any sidewalks. Now I live in a village dating to the 14th century, and don't even need to walk to the store, let alone drive: my groceries get delivered to my doorstep. As far as I'm concerned, the traditional "supermarket" model is one in which the customer is used as an ersatz employee: you do your own delivery driving, you do your own stock picking, and these days you even do your own checkout scanning.
- LargoLasskhyfv 3y agoAt first thought I'd see this in similar ways, with the exception of anything that is (or should be) fresh, like fruits, vegetables, meat & fish/sea-fruits. How is your delivery experience with those? At second thought I'd miss the haptics/olfactorics of smelling/tasting new kinds(or so far unknown to me) of cheeses, or the general discoverability of other items in store, like soaps, deodorants, shower-gels, shaving-stuff, etc. Searching and ordering these online is a bad substitute for me. At third thought all of this delivery-hype should be shunned, because it's just cementing in a class of low-wage workers, ready to be exploited, for the fucking convenience of all the the tasteless assholes giving a shit about such things.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
- te_chris 3y agoI live near Green Lanes in London. Have a massive Sainsbury's (supermarket, nudging hypermarket as sells clothes), an Aldi, and then all up Green Lanes is a never ending stream of grocers in various med flavours (Turkish, Italian, Cypriot etc). It's chaotic, but I love being able to get anything I want from nice people any time. Only sad bit is the good Butcher closed (English style. There's still at least 4 Turkish ones, but they don't do pork, sausages, fancy aged steak etc.).
- mpol 3y agoIn the Netherlands this still exists, but mostly in the form of shops "from foreign people". So you have some Turkish stores, a Bengal store, a Polish store, an Afro-Carribean store. They are often run by one person or a family. The customers know where to find these stores without advertising. Recently, in my town at least, there are a few larger Turkish supermarkets. I don't see the smaller shops take a hit yet, not sure if things will change.
- rambambram 3y agoI think on the contrary. Some Turkish and Egyptian small grocery stores in the Dutch town I live in sell better quality meat and vegetables than most chain supermarkets, for a lower price often.
- eterps 3y agoAs a resident, I would never opt to drive to the supermarket, I prefer to walk, or take my bicycle if necessary.
- mytailorisrich 3y agoIt's the same in most large cities. Of course this is paid for at the till...
- yokoprime 3y agoNot really. Where I live, big box supermarkeds are often more expensive, at least for non store-brand items. Also I buy less when shopping using my bike or walking. When I drive, it's so easy to just throw in a fridge pack I don't need etc.
- mytailorisrich 3y agoThere's always one... Where do you live?
- rsynnott 3y ago> Of course this is paid for at the till... I’m not sure how true this is everywhere. Within walking distance (inner suburb of Dublin on the edge of the city center) I have two Tesco Superstores and about eight Tesco Expresses and Metros (Tesco splits its shop types into broad categories). The ‘superstores’ have the same pricing as each other and as suburban ones, the Expresses and Metros have the same pricing within each category, which is sometimes slightly higher than the Superstores. There’s also an Aldi and a Lidl; both are priced the same as any other Aldi or Lidl, as far as I can see. If anything it’s more rural areas where you may see higher prices, in that your local ‘supermarket’ may be essentially a jumped-up chain convenience store.
- beaeglebeach 3y agoThe elevation in price is less location and more whether you're able to buy in bulk. With careful rotation discipline and a handcart it's achievable on foot though, although clearly more convenient with a car and a nice wide lot.
- ssdspoimdsjvv 3y agoIt seems they mean grocery store, rather than supermarket. Also take into account that in the Netherlands it's more common to go grocery shopping daily or every few days.
- rsynnott 3y agoThe distinction can be fuzzy, tho.
- Loeffelmann 3y agoIt's probably because they are so close. I would imagine many americans would do the same if their neighbourhood was in walkable distance. I live in Germany and I do the same I go shopping everyday for 10 minutes for the things I need for the day.
- avallach 3y agoI'd qualify the most popular chains here (like Albert Hein) as super markets. You can buy not only food, but also all the basic home supplies (cleaning products etc), large choice of drinks and sweets and so on. Basically all you need on daily basis as long as you're not too picky about the brands. But not home _equipment_. In years of living here in few places I've been only going to the store by feet. Indeed it's every few days as apartments are mostly small and you have no space for storing/freezing a lot of food. And there are mice everywhere.
- timvdalen 3y agoI don't think there's a distinction between those two things in The Netherlands. I'd translate them both to "supermarkt".
- secretsatan 3y agoIs it more common to go daily because there are so many grocery stores? I'm not in Amsterdam, but Switzerland, where I am, there's supermarkets for every neighbourhood, I took to buying groceries nearly every day because it's so easy to pick them up on the way home, I can just go in and see what's on sale to make dinner.
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- malermeister 3y agoAs somebody who's lived in both Amsterdam and the Bay Area, the list of things that Bay Area car advocates say are impossible that I've seen work with my own eyes is endless.
- rsynnott 3y agoI mean, when I’ve visited San Francisco, it seems to have supermarkets all over the place too (albeit rather expensive, not-very-good ones), so they even have a local model.
- sofixa 3y agoWhen I visited SF I found that to be the case in some neighbourhoods, but in others like... everything West of the downtown, e.g. towards Golden Gate Park, Richmond, Sunset, Twin Peaks, etc. was extremely barren from anything other than single family houses, with the occasional street with restaurants and shops.
- rsynnott 3y agoAh, yep, that's a point; I was mostly on the east side when I was there. Density did fall off pretty dramatically to the west.
- that_guy_iain 3y agoIn Berlin, there is within the block of my apartment 6 supermarkets. There is even two of the same brand one of them on one corner and the other on the other corner.
- noduerme 3y agoAfter spending a few weeks back in Europe (after 8 years in the US), it quickly came back to me how much easier it is to live a healthy daily pattern of life there than it is here. In particular: Shopping for food in the US is almost always a separate trip in a car or a bus or on foot. Whereas in Spain it's common to go meet friends, pick up some bread and veg from the store, meet more friends and pick up things from a butcher on the way home, then you start cooking and go out again later. Ane you can do this every day. In Amerca... you have to plan a trip with a car to buy more than you want to spend and stock it away, and at the end you want to go out and you don't even want to cook
- rsynnott 3y agoIs this just an urban vs outer suburb thing, tho? My experience of the US is largely limited to San Francisco and Seattle, but there did seem to be supermarkets within walking distance most places in the city.
- joshghent 3y agoAbsolutely, design of cities dictates behaviour. The secondary effects of this are interesting too. For example, european kitchens can be smaller because they don’t need to store as much.
- a_c 3y agoThis is also why I think and hope electric vehicle is not the global solution to the too much ICE cars problem, nor is archieving self driving on those cars. A popular solution doesn't make it the best one, it is just the best solution under certain circumstances. Yes I'm talking about tesla.
- ignormies 3y ago"The future of the car is self-driving, but the future of transportation is not the car"
- mavamaarten 3y agoIndeed! I was in SF for a few months. Finding affordable food was insanely hard. Fast food was both really cheap and everywhere. Fresh produce and basics like bread were expensive or hard to find, a long bus / tube drive away. Of course it's much easier to fall into that trap of shitty and cheap food. Where I live the balance is much easier. Vegetables, fruit, meat, ... it's all relatively cheap and easy to get, there's supermarkets and bakeries everywhere. Fast food is relatively expensive, so you get something to think about: (expensive+unhealthy but easy) || (cheap+healthy but you need to cook)
- ars 3y agoI would like to see how many SKU's are in these stores compared to places where the stores are further apart.
- jazzyjackson 3y agoRight? I lived in Brooklyn and could walk to three grocery stores, but none of them sold a decent sirloin.
- sofixa 3y agoFor a decent sirloin in a Western European city you'd go to a butcher's shop, not a supermarket.
- lotsofpulp 3y agoPerhaps this has more to do with changes in demand for a decent sirloin in Brooklyn.
- mpol 3y agoIn the centre of Amsterdam, most Albert Heijn stores (they are the most common supermarket in Amsterdam) are relatively small and only sell the more popular products. These are the places with lots of tourists, while real estate is expensive, so it makes sense. More outside the center where the living neighbourhoods are most Albert Heijn stores are on the larger side and have their full stock. Though some smaller malls have also smaller supermarkets. In other cities in the Netherlands you see a likewise pattern.
- dalai 3y agoWhere I live (in Germany) there are 8 or 9 supermarkets within half a mile distance, two of which organic and one a "center" (i.e. big). I find that the inventory is limited only in 1 or 2 of the smallest ones. In all the others I typically find everything I need.
- SargeDebian 3y agoOff the top of my head: depending on the chain, usually between 7000 and 15000 SKUs.
- Semaphor 3y agoPop 200k city in Germany. Historical city center is roughly 2 km² We have one Aldi, one organic supermarket, 4 REWE, 1 Edeka, and one Penny. Everything but Penny is less than 1 km away from where I live, the closest REWE is 300 meters. This density falls off when you leave the center, but you still usually have at least one within walking distance.
- pstadler 3y agoThere's a YouTube channel[1] explaining the difference between North American cities and European ones. As a resident of Amsterdam he covers this city a lot. I'm from Zurich, Switzerland. I don't own a car because everything I need is either in walking/cycling distance or reachable by public transport. While I've been well aware of the car dependency situation in North America, watching a few episodes from the mentioned YouTube channel, made me realize that this is a self-inflicted problem because of car centric zoning and development rules. The often cited "greater distances" are in fact the result of these, not the cause. [1] https://youtube.com/@NotJustBikes https://youtube.com/@NotJustBikes
- lotsofpulp 3y agoAnd one of the root causes is the desire to create a greater distance between politically powerful populations and politically weak populations.
- Bluescreenbuddy 3y agoI'm in Chicago in Rogers Park and own no car. Everything I need is walking distance and I get to work via commuter rail that is a block from me. It's awesome.
- soupfordummies 3y agoRogers Park is a great hood for sure. Do you know if that arcade bar is still open by the El station?
- MichaelRo 3y agoVery interesting link (@Not Just Bikes), didn't think it's so bad in the US with pedestrian walkways. I mean like I live in the Romanian suburb and it's not great, but supermarkets everywhere and walkways alongside car roads is the norm. What we still try to catch up is Netherland-ish bike lanes, problem's when they do it at all, "they" (city roadworks) implement it in a very Balkan way: they made a bike lane allright but every 10 meters there's a crossing with a 10 cm bump, makes biking on the lane rather impractical if not impossible. https://imgur.com/a/iCCQJRt https://imgur.com/a/iCCQJRt
- pmontra 3y agoI remember I had 5 supermarkets between 5 to 10 minutes walking distance from my home when I was living in Milan. 100 meters in 1 minute is 6 km per hour which is a brisk pace so the closest supermarket was at about 400 meters. Of course I never drove to them, I always walked and came home with a couple of bags two or three times per week, usually at 2 PM when the supermarkets are almost empty. Water weights a lot and could be a reason to go shopping by car but 1) I always drank water from the pipe in the kitchen since I was little 2) I would have to walk to my home from where I found a parking place on the street and that was often as much as walking from the supermarket.
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- macilacilove 3y agoThe distance to the second closest supermarket is what matters. I dread living in a city (again) that has only one supermarket.
- kermitdekikker 3y agoLucky for you there are 254 in a 3 km radius (~2 mile) for you
- drawkward 3y agoI live in an American city, population ~250,000 in the city center; 2.5 million if you include the suburbs. Nearest grocery store to me is ~2 miles away.
- glimshe 3y agoLiving in the US and within walking distance (5-10 min walk) of a grocery store, I'd much rather drive because I can buy more things, thus making fewer trips over the month. It's the same 5 min by car, but it's just a lot more convenient. I have plenty of exercise, so I prefer to not carry a bunch of bags to stay fit...
- gedy 3y agoYeah it seems like a cultural thing whereas some people want to shop a little bit every day and driving is a hassle, others (like me) want to shop once a week or two and be done with it. Driving is not an issue, as I work and exercise from home.
- badpun 3y agoI'm in similar situation. I much prefer to walk, because it's healthier, cheaper, less stressful an more pleasant than driving. Also, since it doubles down as excercise, I don't have to do as much of it. I carry the groceries in a large-ish (35 L) backpack.
- AndrewOMartin 3y agoTo an American, 100 years is a long time. To a European, 100 miles is a long way.
- em500 3y agoMaybe the more interesting stats for parents: Average distance to primary/elementary school: 500m (with on average 3.6 schools within a 1km radius, 27.5 within a 3km radius) Average distance to secondary/middle-high school: 900m (with on average 10.8 schools within a 3km radius) That's why starting from age 8 or so most kids cycle or walk to school themselves (there are no school busses in the Netherlands AFAIK).
- sejtnjir 3y agoI can confirm there are no school buses in Amsterdam. School kids do use the extensive public transport network to get to school on occasion.
- scruple 3y agoFrom what I've seen in recent years, we don't have school buses in a lot of the US anymore, either. Now every school-aged kid has to be transported back and forth in a personal vehicle.
- avazhi 3y agoIt’s an extremely tiny place with no geographic features, like mountains, whatsoever. This isn’t surprising and it isn’t something to extrapolate to anywhere that is even minutely dissimilar.
- kermitdekikker 3y agoAmsterdam is not extremely big but almost 1 million people is not extremely tiny. And even then size little to do with these stats unless you are talking about places with less than a handful of supermarkets. Flatness is nice (but weather is bad). However, the main thing is infrastructure and mixed zoning. When you build bike lanes, walkable streets and lots of shops, a livable city will follow, not the other way around. Build for the traffic you want rather than the traffic you have. These stats on supermarkets will be similar in many European cities btw. Many cities in the US are also relatively flat, and you don't see the same thing generally.
- zaps 3y agoIs this the “15-minute city” thing that the anti-vaxxers are losing their minds over?