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It’s not going to stop EVs anyway - they have already crossed the total cost of ownership equality point and it is just physics from here. This is the equivale

It’s not going to stop EVs anyway - they have already crossed the total cost of ownership equality point and it is just physics from here. This is the equivalent of lobbying for coal against natural gas

alephnerd 3y ago
It makes cost of ownership expensive, and decreases subsidizes for manufacturing. By making manufacturing expensive, it slows down adoption of EV cars, as the price point is too high.
downWidOutaFite 3y ago
Isn't that only when you include the federal tax credit?
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Model Y and 3 are priced below new combustion vehicle price pre tax incentive. As thinkcontext mentions, that price will be lower next year when the federal credit is taken off right at point of sale. https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-and-model-y-cost-less-than-the-average-ca-1850914078 https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-and-model-y-cost-less-tha... > At $38,990, the base Model 3 sedan now costs $8,700 less than the average amount paid for a car or truck in the US. The starting price for a Model Y SUV is $3,700 below the average auto price of roughly $48,000, according to an analysis by Bloomberg Green. Tesla started cutting prices at the start of the year, twisting the screws on legacy automakers that were already struggling to make electric vehicles profitably. > “Now the fun part of cost declines ... life after price parity,” said Sam Korus, an analyst at Ark Investment Management, which manages funds with approximately $1.27 billion in Tesla stock. “There is no reason why battery costs or EVs should halt their price declines at price parity. The product can continue to cost less, or it continues to sit in the same price segment and performance improves.”
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    > At $38,990, the base Model 3 sedan now costs $8,700 less than the average amount paid for a car or truck in the US. Not sure why Jalopnik would compare the Model 3 prices to a "segment" including cars and trucks. Perhaps because the actual average price for a new mid size sedan in October 2023 is actually $32,400... > The starting price for a Model Y SUV is $3,700 below the average auto price of roughly $48,000 The average price for a new Crossover SUV in October 2023 is $35,700. I think it's highly disingenous to compare against "all cars and trucks", not against segment. Now the Model S is almost at the average in its segment, starting at $74,900 versus $73,536 for the "luxury car" segment (I don't actually agree that the Model S is a luxury car, more 'high end', but we'll go with it. Source: KBB via https://clark.com/cars/average-new-car-price/ https://clark.com/cars/average-new-car-price/
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- thinkcontext 3y ago
  No. The average EV sale price in Sep '23 was $50K, down from $65K a year ago, vs $48K for the industry overall. https://money.com/ev-vs-gas-cars-price-difference-decreasing/ https://money.com/ev-vs-gas-cars-price-difference-decreasing... Next year the tax credit will be incorporated into the sale price which should help sales.
  - ApolloFortyNine 3y ago
    I hadn't heard of that, how are they going to justify that while the credit is still dependent on income? And idk the idea that the average American needs the 7500 credit baked into the price or they simply won't do enough research on their $50000 put hase to realize it exists otherwise doesn't seem great. It's either a stupid change, or the average car buyer... Isn't the brightest.
rs999gti 3y ago
> they have already crossed the total cost of ownership equality point The cheapest car in the USA is the Nissan Versa at 18K USD? What EV costs 18K? There is still a 10K USD gap to cover. https://www.cars.com/articles/here-are-the-11-cheapest-electric-vehicles-you-can-buy-439849/ https://www.cars.com/articles/here-are-the-11-cheapest-elect...
- aw1621107 3y ago
  Purchase price != total cost of ownership
  - rs999gti 3y ago
    No, TCO includes purchase price. From cars.com > Total Cost of Ownership page will show you exactly how much that new car will cost you over five years, based on its MSRP, .... https://www.cars.com/articles/cars-com-introduces-total-cost-of-ownership-for-new-cars-1420669236152/ https://www.cars.com/articles/cars-com-introduces-total-cost...
    - aw1621107 3y ago
      > TCO includes purchase price. Which is true, but that doesn't mean TCO and purchase price are one and the same. The page you originally linked discusses purchase price, not TCO, so it's not very useful for analyzing outside1234's claim since it only provides one part of TCO.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  A chevy volt goes for $27.8k, with federal incentive that is $20.3k. Whether you can actually find that or a Nissan Versa for $18k is another story. The Wuling Mini is around $5k. It might not be road legal for the USA, but you can imagine it will do really well in developing economies.

alephnerd 3y ago

It makes cost of ownership expensive, and decreases subsidizes for manufacturing. By making manufacturing expensive, it slows down adoption of EV cars, as the price point is too high.

downWidOutaFite 3y ago

Isn't that only when you include the federal tax credit?

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Model Y and 3 are priced below new combustion vehicle price pre tax incentive. As thinkcontext mentions, that price will be lower next year when the federal credit is taken off right at point of sale. https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-and-model-y-cost-less-than-the-average-ca-1850914078 https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-and-model-y-cost-less-tha... > At $38,990, the base Model 3 sedan now costs $8,700 less than the average amount paid for a car or truck in the US. The starting price for a Model Y SUV is $3,700 below the average auto price of roughly $48,000, according to an analysis by Bloomberg Green. Tesla started cutting prices at the start of the year, twisting the screws on legacy automakers that were already struggling to make electric vehicles profitably. > “Now the fun part of cost declines ... life after price parity,” said Sam Korus, an analyst at Ark Investment Management, which manages funds with approximately $1.27 billion in Tesla stock. “There is no reason why battery costs or EVs should halt their price declines at price parity. The product can continue to cost less, or it continues to sit in the same price segment and performance improves.”
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  > At $38,990, the base Model 3 sedan now costs $8,700 less than the average amount paid for a car or truck in the US. Not sure why Jalopnik would compare the Model 3 prices to a "segment" including cars and trucks. Perhaps because the actual average price for a new mid size sedan in October 2023 is actually $32,400... > The starting price for a Model Y SUV is $3,700 below the average auto price of roughly $48,000 The average price for a new Crossover SUV in October 2023 is $35,700. I think it's highly disingenous to compare against "all cars and trucks", not against segment. Now the Model S is almost at the average in its segment, starting at $74,900 versus $73,536 for the "luxury car" segment (I don't actually agree that the Model S is a luxury car, more 'high end', but we'll go with it. Source: KBB via https://clark.com/cars/average-new-car-price/ https://clark.com/cars/average-new-car-price/
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
thinkcontext 3y ago
No. The average EV sale price in Sep '23 was $50K, down from $65K a year ago, vs $48K for the industry overall. https://money.com/ev-vs-gas-cars-price-difference-decreasing/ https://money.com/ev-vs-gas-cars-price-difference-decreasing... Next year the tax credit will be incorporated into the sale price which should help sales.
- ApolloFortyNine 3y ago
  I hadn't heard of that, how are they going to justify that while the credit is still dependent on income? And idk the idea that the average American needs the 7500 credit baked into the price or they simply won't do enough research on their $50000 put hase to realize it exists otherwise doesn't seem great. It's either a stupid change, or the average car buyer... Isn't the brightest.

rs999gti 3y ago

> they have already crossed the total cost of ownership equality point The cheapest car in the USA is the Nissan Versa at 18K USD? What EV costs 18K? There is still a 10K USD gap to cover. https://www.cars.com/articles/here-are-the-11-cheapest-electric-vehicles-you-can-buy-439849/ https://www.cars.com/articles/here-are-the-11-cheapest-elect...

aw1621107 3y ago
Purchase price != total cost of ownership
- rs999gti 3y ago
  No, TCO includes purchase price. From cars.com > Total Cost of Ownership page will show you exactly how much that new car will cost you over five years, based on its MSRP, .... https://www.cars.com/articles/cars-com-introduces-total-cost-of-ownership-for-new-cars-1420669236152/ https://www.cars.com/articles/cars-com-introduces-total-cost...
  - aw1621107 3y ago
    > TCO includes purchase price. Which is true, but that doesn't mean TCO and purchase price are one and the same. The page you originally linked discusses purchase price, not TCO, so it's not very useful for analyzing outside1234's claim since it only provides one part of TCO.
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
A chevy volt goes for $27.8k, with federal incentive that is $20.3k. Whether you can actually find that or a Nissan Versa for $18k is another story. The Wuling Mini is around $5k. It might not be road legal for the USA, but you can imagine it will do really well in developing economies.