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Yup, this was exactly the point and has largely been the major gripe when talking about the pro-Hamas protests. These are the same people that literally destroy

Yup, this was exactly the point and has largely been the major gripe when talking about the pro-Hamas protests. These are the same people that literally destroyed livelihoods over "hate speech" (their definition of what constitutes as "hate" has sometimes been dubious at best). This sort of lack of principle and inconsistency is not healthy for universities.

olliej 3y ago
By conflating pro-palestine protests with pro-hamas you're no different from the anti-semitic assholes who use Israel's apartheid regime and their current genocide as a reason to hate all Jews. It is in fact possible to say "Hamas is bad" while still believing Palestinians are humans with the same rights the UN brought in as a result of things like the holocaust. It's also possible to go "given the decades of colonial abuse by Israel the actions of Hamas are an entirely predictable outcome", much like the myriad terrorist attacks against English civilians by the IRA (that large swathes of America were 100% in support of). Terrorism is objectively wrong, but it is a predictable outcome of abusive and dehumanizing colonial behavior.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  >Terrorism is objectively wrong, but it is a predictable outcome of abusive and dehumanizing colonial behavior. And abusive and dehumanizing behavior is a predictable outcome of Terrorism. How do we break the cycle?
  - BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
    > How do we break the cycle? Honestly? Through pro-getting-along propaganda subversively force-fed to everyone involved. Brainwashing people into hating each other less is probably the only way.
- exbotanical 3y ago
  > By conflating pro-palestine protests with pro-hamas Actually, you conflated the two. I explicitly said "pro-Hamas" and not "pro-Palestinian" because I meant "pro-Hamas". If you watch the hearing, the most contentious question was in reference to actual calls for genocide coming predominantly from pro-Hamas protesters.
  - 1letterunixname 3y ago
    Which rocks are these pro-Hamas protestors hiding under? Are they poisoning us with fluoride or parachuting into Iowa? I haven't seen any "pro-Hamas demonstrators" but I have seen either moronic kids or anti-Palestinian infiltrators dressing up in fatigues to join pro-Palestinian protestors to muddy the waters. I haven't seen any green jihad flags. Another failure is Bill Maher: a moron and a tool of idiocy because he equates pro-Palestinian with pro-Hamas without any nuance or concern for the lives of both Gazans and Israelis.
- JamesBarney 3y ago
  This is a huge oversimplification of the conflict. The Israel-Palestine conflict is not like US native American conflict where we landed somewhere we'd never lived before, killed as many people as possible, and broke treaty after treaty. The Jews has been living there for 2000+ years. The Ottoman empire was the last empire in control of that area. It lost a war and gave up that land to the British. The British proposed a break up. That was rejected. The UN proposed a break up of the area into Jewish and Arab land. The Arabs did not agree with he division of land and went to war with Israel, Israel won. This happened a few times until we ended up with today's boarders. Now neither the Israelis nor Palestinians believe in a two state solution. And you have two groups of people bent on the others destruction.
  - olliej 3y ago
    >The Jews has been living there for 2000+ years. No, the area currently named Israel had not been a jewish state in centuries when the British occupiers gave it to a new set of jewish colonizers of what was an occupied Arab state. The jewish population of the area label Israel was less than 10% jewish until 1910 or so (after Britain had control and started encouraging colonization before explicitly assigning it to a specific group of Jews). At that point a mass colonization was started. To claim that because "jews have always lived there" means that 10s to 100s of thousands of immigrants moving to an area in which they had not lived in generations are not colonizers is patently false. Especially when the people migrating to the area are the group that have all the financial, military, and political power. > Now neither the Israelis nor Palestinians believe in a two state solution you mean the two groups in an apartheid state do not believe that they have equal rights? Remember again, fundamentally the two state solution is "you were colonized, and should be happy to lose half your country". In terms of peace it's probably the only path forward, but don't pretend the victims of colonization should be happy with that outcome.
    - rayiner 3y ago
      It wasn’t colonization. It was a partition. Arabs colonized the area first. Then Turks. After the Ottomans were defeated, the British created multiple countries that hadn’t existed before. Arabs were given several: Iraq, Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon. There was also to be a Palestine. Jews were to be given one small piece of the overall territory. Then the Arab countries tried to wipe out Israel and it was only then you had the occupation of what was supposed to become Palestine. It was similar to the partition of India, which was also something that had only ever existed in that form due to millennia of colonization.

olliej 3y ago

By conflating pro-palestine protests with pro-hamas you're no different from the anti-semitic assholes who use Israel's apartheid regime and their current genocide as a reason to hate all Jews. It is in fact possible to say "Hamas is bad" while still believing Palestinians are humans with the same rights the UN brought in as a result of things like the holocaust. It's also possible to go "given the decades of colonial abuse by Israel the actions of Hamas are an entirely predictable outcome", much like the myriad terrorist attacks against English civilians by the IRA (that large swathes of America were 100% in support of). Terrorism is objectively wrong, but it is a predictable outcome of abusive and dehumanizing colonial behavior.

s1artibartfast 3y ago
>Terrorism is objectively wrong, but it is a predictable outcome of abusive and dehumanizing colonial behavior. And abusive and dehumanizing behavior is a predictable outcome of Terrorism. How do we break the cycle?
- BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
  > How do we break the cycle? Honestly? Through pro-getting-along propaganda subversively force-fed to everyone involved. Brainwashing people into hating each other less is probably the only way.
exbotanical 3y ago
> By conflating pro-palestine protests with pro-hamas Actually, you conflated the two. I explicitly said "pro-Hamas" and not "pro-Palestinian" because I meant "pro-Hamas". If you watch the hearing, the most contentious question was in reference to actual calls for genocide coming predominantly from pro-Hamas protesters.
- 1letterunixname 3y ago
  Which rocks are these pro-Hamas protestors hiding under? Are they poisoning us with fluoride or parachuting into Iowa? I haven't seen any "pro-Hamas demonstrators" but I have seen either moronic kids or anti-Palestinian infiltrators dressing up in fatigues to join pro-Palestinian protestors to muddy the waters. I haven't seen any green jihad flags. Another failure is Bill Maher: a moron and a tool of idiocy because he equates pro-Palestinian with pro-Hamas without any nuance or concern for the lives of both Gazans and Israelis.
JamesBarney 3y ago
This is a huge oversimplification of the conflict. The Israel-Palestine conflict is not like US native American conflict where we landed somewhere we'd never lived before, killed as many people as possible, and broke treaty after treaty. The Jews has been living there for 2000+ years. The Ottoman empire was the last empire in control of that area. It lost a war and gave up that land to the British. The British proposed a break up. That was rejected. The UN proposed a break up of the area into Jewish and Arab land. The Arabs did not agree with he division of land and went to war with Israel, Israel won. This happened a few times until we ended up with today's boarders. Now neither the Israelis nor Palestinians believe in a two state solution. And you have two groups of people bent on the others destruction.
- olliej 3y ago
  >The Jews has been living there for 2000+ years. No, the area currently named Israel had not been a jewish state in centuries when the British occupiers gave it to a new set of jewish colonizers of what was an occupied Arab state. The jewish population of the area label Israel was less than 10% jewish until 1910 or so (after Britain had control and started encouraging colonization before explicitly assigning it to a specific group of Jews). At that point a mass colonization was started. To claim that because "jews have always lived there" means that 10s to 100s of thousands of immigrants moving to an area in which they had not lived in generations are not colonizers is patently false. Especially when the people migrating to the area are the group that have all the financial, military, and political power. > Now neither the Israelis nor Palestinians believe in a two state solution you mean the two groups in an apartheid state do not believe that they have equal rights? Remember again, fundamentally the two state solution is "you were colonized, and should be happy to lose half your country". In terms of peace it's probably the only path forward, but don't pretend the victims of colonization should be happy with that outcome.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    It wasn’t colonization. It was a partition. Arabs colonized the area first. Then Turks. After the Ottomans were defeated, the British created multiple countries that hadn’t existed before. Arabs were given several: Iraq, Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon. There was also to be a Palestine. Jews were to be given one small piece of the overall territory. Then the Arab countries tried to wipe out Israel and it was only then you had the occupation of what was supposed to become Palestine. It was similar to the partition of India, which was also something that had only ever existed in that form due to millennia of colonization.