8 ms·

Motivated by this article, and already thinking about handing down my current phone to a family member as a Christmas gift, I visited the Fairphone store (https

by sowbug 3y ago

Motivated by this article, and already thinking about handing down my current phone to a family member as a Christmas gift, I visited the Fairphone store (https://shop.fairphone.com/ https://shop.fairphone.com/ though likely available only on Amazon in the US) and read one review (https://www.theverge.com/23895548/fairphone-5-review-price-features https://www.theverge.com/23895548/fairphone-5-review-price-f...). Here's why I'm holding off. 1. No wireless charging. Switching to this phone would require a big change in my household's ecosystem (sorry to use a big word for a small thing, but I can't think of a better one). We have $10 wireless charging discs all over the place, and it's nice to be able to charge whenever we set our phones down. I don't want to take a step backward. 2. The Verge's review suggests the camera is OK but not great. I've been taking Pixel photos for years, and my phone is always the one people ask to use for group shots at social events. I don't want to fuss with taking a picture ten times just to get the lighting right, and the Pixel almost always meets the bar on the first shot. It sucks that a consumption device like a phone has this one critical input feature, and that there is still so much of a computational photography gap between certain brands and the rest, but that's how it is, and it prevents me from seriously considering any of them. (This isn't unique to Pixel; I hear Apple does well in this area, too.) 3. Just a nit: why is the case 40 euros? I expect to pay a premium for the phone because of the specific compromises in the design and the resulting low volumes. But this is just another run-of-the-mill TPU case that I expect I'd have to routinely replace every couple years. I don't use screen protectors, but I have an even more allergic reaction to the 33-euro price of the one for sale. I know there are aftermarket options, but I'm already taking a risk of poor part/accessory availability in the future because it's a niche product, so I don't know whether they'll still be available when I need them years from now. By the way, I do own a Framework laptop (11th-gen CPU), and I like it a lot. I plan to swap out the motherboard next year. Unlike the Fairphone, the Framework didn't impose cost and performance compromises right out of the gate. I support sustainability, but there's only so far I'm willing to go.

Buxato 3y ago
1. Always sad for me to know how much popular are wireless chargers, wasting 47% more energy aprox for charging the same as a wired charger. https://debugger.medium.com/wireless-charging-is-a-disaster-waiting-to-happen-48afdde70ed9 https://debugger.medium.com/wireless-charging-is-a-disaster-... (too much catastrophic conclusions in this article but that percentage is real, you could check it in another tests, articles, whatever ..) 2. Totally agree with that, if camera is fundamental for you maybe not the right choice. 3. They also take compromises to have an ethical production, try to guarantee there is no exploitation as much as they could, from the extraction of mineral, manufacturing ... (they didn't do it for all, but they are advancing as far as they could, also with all existing certifications for that, so it's normal that is expensive. So our choice to value that things, if we could afford it, or not.
- binkHN 3y ago
  > Always sad for me to know how much popular are wireless chargers, wasting 47% more energy aprox for charging the same as a wired charger. The energy waste is a shame, but the convenience factor is mighty high, not to mention the wear and tear on your USB-C port is non-existent. Maybe one point for less USB cable waste and tossing perfectly good phones just because their USB ports are damaged?
  - imp0cat 3y ago
    You can get one of those magnetic adapters if you worry about your USB-C port that much.
- mtmail 3y ago
  This 2016 article puts the cost of charging an ipad at $1.55 per year (iphone lower but I assume batteries got bigger or time). 47% wastage with wireless chrome is not much in terms of energy costs. https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-an-iphone-for-a-year/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charg...
- gruez 3y ago
  >1. Always sad for me to know how much popular are wireless chargers, wasting 47% more energy aprox for charging the same as a wired charger. https://debugger.medium.com/wireless-charging-is-a-disaster- https://debugger.medium.com/wireless-charging-is-a-disaster-... (too much catastrophic conclusions in this article but that percentage is real, you could check it in another tests, articles, whatever ..) The percentage value looks bad but how much is that in absolute terms? Using the figures from the article, wireless charging uses 6.75 Wh more per full charge. Assuming you charge that much every day, that's 2.46 kWh per year, or 42 cents at average US electricity prices[1]. I think that's a price worth paying for the convenience. [1] https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/data/averageenergyprices_selectedareas_table.htm https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/data/averageenergyprices...
  - GuB-42 3y ago
    Maybe it is, but we are talking about the Fairphone. A phone that the company pitches as more eco-friendly than the competition. Lacking a feature that is known to be wasteful in terms of energy is fitting. Maybe it is negligible, but I suspect that in the grand scheme of things, the whole "fair trade" thing is negligible too, it didn't stop the company from building on that. At least, it sends a good message.
prmoustache 3y ago
1. People in my household put their phone to charge only once a day, when they go to bed. How hard is it to plug a phone once a day?
- calamari4065 3y ago
  How hard is it to drop your phone on a charging pad?
  - broscillator 3y ago
    it's about 1% more convenient
    - calamari4065 3y ago
      That's really all it takes
      - globular-toast 3y ago
        Nah, I think someone just got addicted to adding "cool tech" to their house and is now locked in to phones with wireless charging. A lot of the smart home stuff seems to be like that.
- stronglikedan 3y ago
  Then people in your household either (a) don't really use their phones that much or (b) get brand new phones with brand new batteries every year. There is no phone battery that lasts an entire day for a person that uses their >1yo phone a lot throughout the day.
  - digging 3y ago
    Horseshit. I could charge my Pixel 5 once every other day, and I use it for photography as well as meme scrolling and messaging. If you're using your phone so much that it needs to be be charged twice a day then you're almost certainly using it in a way that's worse for your health than for the battery life. Or you're wasting a lot of battery life on background telemetry. Do you use battery saver mode? I actually try not to fully charge my phone, but keep it between 30%-70%, which puts less strain on it, and battery saver kicks on at 50%.
jancsika 3y ago
> I've been taking Pixel photos for years, and my phone is always the one people ask to use for group shots at social events. If the average social gathering is more than two people, this is already a minority use case. If the average is even just 10 that's only at most 10% of cell phone users like you. In short, I believe you've just written the first formal proof of obscurantism on HN. :)
jLaForest 3y ago
You can buy wireless charging modules that plug into the USB port and are hidden between the case and phone
autoexec 3y ago
I'll add to your list of fairphone shortcomings the lack of a headphone jack. I really don't buy their excuse that including one would make the phone too large to be commercially viable.
- Tade0 3y ago
  Especially that Sony still includes one in a smaller, lighter device. Not to mention all the previous generations of phones that had it.
- criddell 3y ago
  So what do you think the real reason is?
  - autoexec 3y ago
    I couldn't say... most likely they just don't see it as a priority, but I'm sure that not including one lowers their costs and takes less effort which could be a motivator.
- caoilte 3y ago
  i think the reason is fair, but unfortunately it is a dealbreaker for me. i would definitely have got one earlier this year if it had had one.
- orthecreedence 3y ago
  Same. I've been extremely resistant to any device without a headphone jack. I don't get this weird obsession with removing them. Apple made the idiotic decision originally because they have this weird air of "knowing better than you" but what I don't get is why other manufacturers followed suit. Oh well.
polishdude20 3y ago
Around Christmas time I always consider giving a family member one of my old smart phones. But then I remember I stopped using them because they got old and the battery life sucks.
- yencabulator 3y ago
  Great argument for swappable batteries in standard sizes.
  - orthecreedence 3y ago
    What are you, a communist?
mrpopo 3y ago
"Supporting" sustainability, but you don't accept having to plug your phone once-a-day like 90% of smartphone owners, you want to have the best phone camera in your social group, and you don't want screen protectors. I'm shocked we have come to this as a society. If you don't accept any compromises, just admit that you don't really care and move on.
Reubachi 3y ago
1. This is like critiscizing a green energy company for not burning oil. Wireless charging is antithetical to any sustainable device mission. In terms of "last mile delivery", wireless charging for small personal devices is about the least efficient, highest energy waste delivery method there is. I'm talking orders of magnitude more waste versus production than coal, oil, propane, wale blubber, wood. That isn't even to say the effect on your battery or surrounding plastics/membranes. 2. Do you purchase a cell phone in 2023 with "Camera quality" in mind? Not trying to be rude, I'm actively sampling this query. I can't understand this and haven't since modern smart phones proliferated. No matter the phone, set it to raw, take photo ,edit in post. Comes out leagues better than any ios, pixel etc photo. and I don't know who is taking so many photos and comparing them to care. 3. The accessory case is a criticism is a bit more valid but come on. THis phone is losing money on every sale. If they sell one of these cases for every phone, they MAY come out ahead because as you said, the cases are cheap junk. Don't buy the case if this is a problem. This last years, apple switched from leather cases to "vegan leather". Same cost, made in china. More than the cost of this fair phone case. I feel like if you own a framework, you should understand that the criticisms you listed are.....not criticisms and are in fact features or obvious requirements for a loss-leading edge case device. There is no 100 percent, perfect, sustainable mobile device like there is for workstations, because the walled garden of mobile devices is unfortunatley just more rigidly architectured.
- digging 3y ago
  > 2. Do you purchase a cell phone in 2023 with "Camera quality" in mind? Not trying to be rude, I'm actively sampling this query. I can't understand this and haven't since modern smart phones proliferated. No matter the phone, set it to raw, take photo ,edit in post. Comes out leagues better than any ios, pixel etc photo. and I don't know who is taking so many photos and comparing them to care. The whole idea of smartphone cameras is that nobody is editing RAWs. I have issues with the GP comment but wanting a high quality camera is not one of them. Taking decent-to-great smartphone photos, whether inane or artistic, is a staple of modern life. (Although it sounds more like a status thing in their case, like they don't want someone else in their social group to be the go-to photographer? Maybe it was just not worded clearly.)w
qingcharles 3y ago
My friend has a Pixel 7 (non Pro) and it takes pretty crappy photos for such a high-end phone. Shooting in RAW with all the hi-res options turned on. Anything that would help? Better camera app than the Google one?

by sowbug 3y ago

Buxato 3y ago

1. Always sad for me to know how much popular are wireless chargers, wasting 47% more energy aprox for charging the same as a wired charger. https://debugger.medium.com/wireless-charging-is-a-disaster-waiting-to-happen-48afdde70ed9 https://debugger.medium.com/wireless-charging-is-a-disaster-... (too much catastrophic conclusions in this article but that percentage is real, you could check it in another tests, articles, whatever ..) 2. Totally agree with that, if camera is fundamental for you maybe not the right choice. 3. They also take compromises to have an ethical production, try to guarantee there is no exploitation as much as they could, from the extraction of mineral, manufacturing ... (they didn't do it for all, but they are advancing as far as they could, also with all existing certifications for that, so it's normal that is expensive. So our choice to value that things, if we could afford it, or not.

binkHN 3y ago
> Always sad for me to know how much popular are wireless chargers, wasting 47% more energy aprox for charging the same as a wired charger. The energy waste is a shame, but the convenience factor is mighty high, not to mention the wear and tear on your USB-C port is non-existent. Maybe one point for less USB cable waste and tossing perfectly good phones just because their USB ports are damaged?
- imp0cat 3y ago
  You can get one of those magnetic adapters if you worry about your USB-C port that much.
mtmail 3y ago
This 2016 article puts the cost of charging an ipad at $1.55 per year (iphone lower but I assume batteries got bigger or time). 47% wastage with wireless chrome is not much in terms of energy costs. https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-an-iphone-for-a-year/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charg...
gruez 3y ago
>1. Always sad for me to know how much popular are wireless chargers, wasting 47% more energy aprox for charging the same as a wired charger. https://debugger.medium.com/wireless-charging-is-a-disaster- https://debugger.medium.com/wireless-charging-is-a-disaster-... (too much catastrophic conclusions in this article but that percentage is real, you could check it in another tests, articles, whatever ..) The percentage value looks bad but how much is that in absolute terms? Using the figures from the article, wireless charging uses 6.75 Wh more per full charge. Assuming you charge that much every day, that's 2.46 kWh per year, or 42 cents at average US electricity prices[1]. I think that's a price worth paying for the convenience. [1] https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/data/averageenergyprices_selectedareas_table.htm https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/data/averageenergyprices...
- GuB-42 3y ago
  Maybe it is, but we are talking about the Fairphone. A phone that the company pitches as more eco-friendly than the competition. Lacking a feature that is known to be wasteful in terms of energy is fitting. Maybe it is negligible, but I suspect that in the grand scheme of things, the whole "fair trade" thing is negligible too, it didn't stop the company from building on that. At least, it sends a good message.

prmoustache 3y ago

1. People in my household put their phone to charge only once a day, when they go to bed. How hard is it to plug a phone once a day?

calamari4065 3y ago
How hard is it to drop your phone on a charging pad?
- broscillator 3y ago
  it's about 1% more convenient
  - calamari4065 3y ago
    That's really all it takes
    - globular-toast 3y ago
      Nah, I think someone just got addicted to adding "cool tech" to their house and is now locked in to phones with wireless charging. A lot of the smart home stuff seems to be like that.
stronglikedan 3y ago
Then people in your household either (a) don't really use their phones that much or (b) get brand new phones with brand new batteries every year. There is no phone battery that lasts an entire day for a person that uses their >1yo phone a lot throughout the day.
- digging 3y ago
  Horseshit. I could charge my Pixel 5 once every other day, and I use it for photography as well as meme scrolling and messaging. If you're using your phone so much that it needs to be be charged twice a day then you're almost certainly using it in a way that's worse for your health than for the battery life. Or you're wasting a lot of battery life on background telemetry. Do you use battery saver mode? I actually try not to fully charge my phone, but keep it between 30%-70%, which puts less strain on it, and battery saver kicks on at 50%.

jancsika 3y ago

> I've been taking Pixel photos for years, and my phone is always the one people ask to use for group shots at social events. If the average social gathering is more than two people, this is already a minority use case. If the average is even just 10 that's only at most 10% of cell phone users like you. In short, I believe you've just written the first formal proof of obscurantism on HN. :)

jLaForest 3y ago

You can buy wireless charging modules that plug into the USB port and are hidden between the case and phone

autoexec 3y ago

I'll add to your list of fairphone shortcomings the lack of a headphone jack. I really don't buy their excuse that including one would make the phone too large to be commercially viable.

Tade0 3y ago
Especially that Sony still includes one in a smaller, lighter device. Not to mention all the previous generations of phones that had it.
criddell 3y ago
So what do you think the real reason is?
- autoexec 3y ago
  I couldn't say... most likely they just don't see it as a priority, but I'm sure that not including one lowers their costs and takes less effort which could be a motivator.
caoilte 3y ago
i think the reason is fair, but unfortunately it is a dealbreaker for me. i would definitely have got one earlier this year if it had had one.
orthecreedence 3y ago
Same. I've been extremely resistant to any device without a headphone jack. I don't get this weird obsession with removing them. Apple made the idiotic decision originally because they have this weird air of "knowing better than you" but what I don't get is why other manufacturers followed suit. Oh well.

polishdude20 3y ago

Around Christmas time I always consider giving a family member one of my old smart phones. But then I remember I stopped using them because they got old and the battery life sucks.

yencabulator 3y ago
Great argument for swappable batteries in standard sizes.
- orthecreedence 3y ago
  What are you, a communist?

mrpopo 3y ago

"Supporting" sustainability, but you don't accept having to plug your phone once-a-day like 90% of smartphone owners, you want to have the best phone camera in your social group, and you don't want screen protectors. I'm shocked we have come to this as a society. If you don't accept any compromises, just admit that you don't really care and move on.

Reubachi 3y ago

1. This is like critiscizing a green energy company for not burning oil. Wireless charging is antithetical to any sustainable device mission. In terms of "last mile delivery", wireless charging for small personal devices is about the least efficient, highest energy waste delivery method there is. I'm talking orders of magnitude more waste versus production than coal, oil, propane, wale blubber, wood. That isn't even to say the effect on your battery or surrounding plastics/membranes. 2. Do you purchase a cell phone in 2023 with "Camera quality" in mind? Not trying to be rude, I'm actively sampling this query. I can't understand this and haven't since modern smart phones proliferated. No matter the phone, set it to raw, take photo ,edit in post. Comes out leagues better than any ios, pixel etc photo. and I don't know who is taking so many photos and comparing them to care. 3. The accessory case is a criticism is a bit more valid but come on. THis phone is losing money on every sale. If they sell one of these cases for every phone, they MAY come out ahead because as you said, the cases are cheap junk. Don't buy the case if this is a problem. This last years, apple switched from leather cases to "vegan leather". Same cost, made in china. More than the cost of this fair phone case. I feel like if you own a framework, you should understand that the criticisms you listed are.....not criticisms and are in fact features or obvious requirements for a loss-leading edge case device. There is no 100 percent, perfect, sustainable mobile device like there is for workstations, because the walled garden of mobile devices is unfortunatley just more rigidly architectured.

digging 3y ago
> 2. Do you purchase a cell phone in 2023 with "Camera quality" in mind? Not trying to be rude, I'm actively sampling this query. I can't understand this and haven't since modern smart phones proliferated. No matter the phone, set it to raw, take photo ,edit in post. Comes out leagues better than any ios, pixel etc photo. and I don't know who is taking so many photos and comparing them to care. The whole idea of smartphone cameras is that nobody is editing RAWs. I have issues with the GP comment but wanting a high quality camera is not one of them. Taking decent-to-great smartphone photos, whether inane or artistic, is a staple of modern life. (Although it sounds more like a status thing in their case, like they don't want someone else in their social group to be the go-to photographer? Maybe it was just not worded clearly.)w

qingcharles 3y ago

My friend has a Pixel 7 (non Pro) and it takes pretty crappy photos for such a high-end phone. Shooting in RAW with all the hi-res options turned on. Anything that would help? Better camera app than the Google one?