10 ms·

> Bard w/ Gemini Pro isn't available in Europe and isn't multi-modal, https://support.google.com/bard/answer/14294096 https://support.google.com/bard/answer/142

> Bard w/ Gemini Pro isn't available in Europe and isn't multi-modal, https://support.google.com/bard/answer/14294096 https://support.google.com/bard/answer/14294096 It's available in 174 countries. Europe has gone to great lengths to make itself an incredibly hostile environment for online businesses to operate in. That's a fair choice, but don't blame Google for spending some extra time on compliance before launching there.

Method-X 3y ago
Gemini Ultra is the model claimed to be superior to GPT-4. I'd put Gemini Pro on par with GPT-3.5 or maybe slightly better.
Teever 3y ago
Excuses. ChatGPT available in Europe.
- runako 3y ago
  When the EU wrote the law targeting American Big Tech companies for compliance, OpenAI wasn't on their radar. Google was. So Google has to comply with a more onerous regime than OpenAI (for now).
  - Ringz 3y ago
    No. It’s not only bound to specific companies.
    - runako 3y ago
      The law was written to be objective, but it was written with a set of companies in mind. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38553635 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38553635 No judgement, this may be good for Europe in the long term.
- rishav_sharan 3y ago
  OpenAI before ChatGPT (or even now) isn't even in the same ballpark with Google, MS etc as far as regulatory oversight goes. Google has far too many services and products which are always touching the boundaries defined by the EU privacy laws. they trip the line with anything and the regulators can make it much harder/costlier for Google to do business in EU.
  - Ringz 3y ago
    > OpenAI before ChatGPT (or even now) isn't even in the same ballpark with Google, MS etc as far as regulatory oversight goes. That doesn’t matter for regulators.
    - kortilla 3y ago
      Yes it does, because those companies have legal entities there.
      - Kbelicius 3y ago
        As does OpenAI.
- ciex 3y ago
  Funny enough, OpenAI to this day violates EU requirements on price advertisement by charging VAT on top of the advertised price. They still owe me and every other customer in the EU ca. $3 VAT for every month I've had the ChatGPT subscription.
runako 3y ago
> It's available in 174 countries. Basically the entire world, except countries that specifically targeted American Big Tech companies for increased regulation. > Europe has gone to great lengths to make itself an incredibly hostile environment for online businesses to operate in. This is such an understated point. I wonder if EU citizens feel well-served by e.g. the pop-up banners that afflict the global web as a result of their regulations[1]. Do they feel like the benefits they get are worth it? What would it take for that calculus to change? 1 - Yes, some say that technically these are not required. But even official organs of the EU such as https://europa.eu https://europa.eu continue to use such banners.
- fractalb 3y ago
  There is no hope to redeem the Web of these banners :(
- roboben 3y ago
  Simple solution: Do not use cookies which are not strictly necessary and you don’t need a banner.
  - runako 3y ago
    I was going to write something tongue in cheek but instead I will simply say that your "simple solution" automatically opts you out of a lot of tooling that site operators have grown to find indispensable over the last couple of decades. Compliance with the EU regulations such that you can legally operate a website without a cookie banner establishes a fairly retrograde set of bounds on how you operate your site. Which is their prerogative[1]. I'm just pointing out that the people who run the EU's official websites aren't able to operate inside those bounds, so it's fair to say those bounds are not commercially reasonable in general for functional sites. QED the banners are de facto required. 1 - The extensive reach of the law is breathtaking. The EU claims jurisdiction over any web property, based anywhere in the world, that might be seen by an EU national.
    - archerx 3y ago
PeterStuer 3y ago
If by businesses you mean 'companies exploiting user's private data against their wishes', you are correct.
kolinko 3y ago
Come on, OpenAI launched gpt4 in EU in sync. Laws are not the issue, their model being crap at non-english languages is.
- IanCal 3y ago
  They also haven't released in the UK and they have released in a huge range of other countries, so language can't be the reason.
jug 3y ago
But Bard already complied to EU laws? I mean. Bard has already gone through this and it was opened in EU. I really wonder how changing an LLM underpinning a service will influence this (I thought compliance had to do with service behavior and data sharing across their platform -- not the algorithm). And I wonder what Google is actually doing here that made them suspect they'll fail compliance once again. And why they did it.
- IanCal 3y ago
  My guess is what data centers they can run this out of. If bard + palm2 is running in eu data centers but gemini is only US for now due to the use of their TPUv5(then a letter?) big machines.
steeve 3y ago
That's a very weird take. In many aspects, Europe is largely business friendlier than the rest of the world.
heliodor 3y ago
"Hostile?" That's quite a loaded word. How about just "tougher?"

Method-X 3y ago

Gemini Ultra is the model claimed to be superior to GPT-4. I'd put Gemini Pro on par with GPT-3.5 or maybe slightly better.

Teever 3y ago

Excuses. ChatGPT available in Europe.

runako 3y ago
When the EU wrote the law targeting American Big Tech companies for compliance, OpenAI wasn't on their radar. Google was. So Google has to comply with a more onerous regime than OpenAI (for now).
- Ringz 3y ago
  No. It’s not only bound to specific companies.
  - runako 3y ago
    The law was written to be objective, but it was written with a set of companies in mind. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38553635 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38553635 No judgement, this may be good for Europe in the long term.
rishav_sharan 3y ago
OpenAI before ChatGPT (or even now) isn't even in the same ballpark with Google, MS etc as far as regulatory oversight goes. Google has far too many services and products which are always touching the boundaries defined by the EU privacy laws. they trip the line with anything and the regulators can make it much harder/costlier for Google to do business in EU.
- Ringz 3y ago
  > OpenAI before ChatGPT (or even now) isn't even in the same ballpark with Google, MS etc as far as regulatory oversight goes. That doesn’t matter for regulators.
  - kortilla 3y ago
    Yes it does, because those companies have legal entities there.
    - Kbelicius 3y ago
      As does OpenAI.
ciex 3y ago
Funny enough, OpenAI to this day violates EU requirements on price advertisement by charging VAT on top of the advertised price. They still owe me and every other customer in the EU ca. $3 VAT for every month I've had the ChatGPT subscription.

runako 3y ago

> It's available in 174 countries. Basically the entire world, except countries that specifically targeted American Big Tech companies for increased regulation. > Europe has gone to great lengths to make itself an incredibly hostile environment for online businesses to operate in. This is such an understated point. I wonder if EU citizens feel well-served by e.g. the pop-up banners that afflict the global web as a result of their regulations[1]. Do they feel like the benefits they get are worth it? What would it take for that calculus to change? 1 - Yes, some say that technically these are not required. But even official organs of the EU such as https://europa.eu https://europa.eu continue to use such banners.

fractalb 3y ago
There is no hope to redeem the Web of these banners :(
roboben 3y ago
Simple solution: Do not use cookies which are not strictly necessary and you don’t need a banner.
- runako 3y ago
  I was going to write something tongue in cheek but instead I will simply say that your "simple solution" automatically opts you out of a lot of tooling that site operators have grown to find indispensable over the last couple of decades. Compliance with the EU regulations such that you can legally operate a website without a cookie banner establishes a fairly retrograde set of bounds on how you operate your site. Which is their prerogative[1]. I'm just pointing out that the people who run the EU's official websites aren't able to operate inside those bounds, so it's fair to say those bounds are not commercially reasonable in general for functional sites. QED the banners are de facto required. 1 - The extensive reach of the law is breathtaking. The EU claims jurisdiction over any web property, based anywhere in the world, that might be seen by an EU national.
  - archerx 3y ago

PeterStuer 3y ago

If by businesses you mean 'companies exploiting user's private data against their wishes', you are correct.

kolinko 3y ago

Come on, OpenAI launched gpt4 in EU in sync. Laws are not the issue, their model being crap at non-english languages is.

IanCal 3y ago
They also haven't released in the UK and they have released in a huge range of other countries, so language can't be the reason.

jug 3y ago

But Bard already complied to EU laws? I mean. Bard has already gone through this and it was opened in EU. I really wonder how changing an LLM underpinning a service will influence this (I thought compliance had to do with service behavior and data sharing across their platform -- not the algorithm). And I wonder what Google is actually doing here that made them suspect they'll fail compliance once again. And why they did it.

IanCal 3y ago
My guess is what data centers they can run this out of. If bard + palm2 is running in eu data centers but gemini is only US for now due to the use of their TPUv5(then a letter?) big machines.

steeve 3y ago

That's a very weird take. In many aspects, Europe is largely business friendlier than the rest of the world.

heliodor 3y ago

"Hostile?" That's quite a loaded word. How about just "tougher?"