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I fully agree with everything you say, but until legislation is enforced you can hardly blame a company for capitalizing on the lack of privacy laws (you can st

I fully agree with everything you say, but until legislation is enforced you can hardly blame a company for capitalizing on the lack of privacy laws (you can still hate them). Point is, start demanding legislation around data privacy and security to anyone who will listen.

marginalia_nu 3y ago
You can absolutely blame a company for unethical but legal actions.
- hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
  Exactly what will that achieve?
  - marginalia_nu 3y ago
    If you drink a cup of coffee and say "this is too hot for me!", what will that accomplish? Nothing, as it's a judgement and not an action. We may act on a judgement though, let the coffee cool down, or avoid dealing with the unethical company.
    - hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
      But you avoiding the company doesn’t prevent the company from infringing on your dna privacy if a family member submits theirs. My point is, until legislation changes, it will get worse before it gets better and misdirected anger won’t achieve a valuable outcome.
consumer451 3y ago
I feel like I can blame the humans involved with 23andMe specifically, as they are the specific humans who allowed unknown 3rd parties to have enough of my DNA to profile my family and myself. However, I entirely agree with your last statement. I would like to call upon anyone who appreciates privacy to get behind a neural bill of rights. While it sounds a bit "tin foil hat" at the moment, non-invasive brain–computer interfaces are coming very soon. Especially using infrared techniques. Today, TSA scans your face, soon enough it will be your brain. This is not a joke. If the USA misses the boat on regulating neural interfaces, we will sail through the final frontier of personal privacy, and even agency. I highly recommend that everyone listens to, or reads the transcript of Sean Carroll's podcast with Nina Farahany on the topic. It is dense with legal and technical information. "Nita Farahany on Ethics, Law, and Neurotechnology" https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2023/03/13/229-nita-farahany-on-ethics-law-and-neurotechnology/ https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2023/03/13/229-...
- gorgoiler 3y ago
  By “unknown third parties” do you mean the hackers? The breach was bad but not that bad — it didn’t include your genetic material. > The stolen data included the person’s name, birth year, relationship labels, the percentage of DNA shared with relatives, ancestry reports and self-reported location. https://techcrunch.com/2023/12/04/23andme-confirms-hackers-stole-ancestry-data-on-6-9-million-users/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/12/04/23andme-confirms-hackers-s...
  - consumer451 3y ago
    I meant 23andMe partners, and yes, also the hack, and future hacks. This DB is a goldmine and I take an extremely pessimistic view on infosec. Information wants to be "free" after all. Look at the KSA agents who were implanted at Twitter as an example. I would have to assume that nation state actors would also implant employees at 23andMe. The publicized hack is the one we, and 23andMe, know about. It's just too juicy a target to keep safely guarded in perpetuity. Simply by compiling this information, you are more or less guaranteeing it falling into the wrong hands eventually. This is an example of information which never should have been compiled.
thrtythreeforty 3y ago
There's no law against being a dirtbag but I am definitely still going to blame you for being a dirtbag. You could always choose... not to be a dirtbag. I would rephrase your point, "don't be surprised when a company capitalizes on lack of laws" -- this I agree with. It's virtually a force of nature.

marginalia_nu 3y ago

You can absolutely blame a company for unethical but legal actions.

hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
Exactly what will that achieve?
- marginalia_nu 3y ago
  If you drink a cup of coffee and say "this is too hot for me!", what will that accomplish? Nothing, as it's a judgement and not an action. We may act on a judgement though, let the coffee cool down, or avoid dealing with the unethical company.
  - hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
    But you avoiding the company doesn’t prevent the company from infringing on your dna privacy if a family member submits theirs. My point is, until legislation changes, it will get worse before it gets better and misdirected anger won’t achieve a valuable outcome.

consumer451 3y ago

I feel like I can blame the humans involved with 23andMe specifically, as they are the specific humans who allowed unknown 3rd parties to have enough of my DNA to profile my family and myself. However, I entirely agree with your last statement. I would like to call upon anyone who appreciates privacy to get behind a neural bill of rights. While it sounds a bit "tin foil hat" at the moment, non-invasive brain–computer interfaces are coming very soon. Especially using infrared techniques. Today, TSA scans your face, soon enough it will be your brain. This is not a joke. If the USA misses the boat on regulating neural interfaces, we will sail through the final frontier of personal privacy, and even agency. I highly recommend that everyone listens to, or reads the transcript of Sean Carroll's podcast with Nina Farahany on the topic. It is dense with legal and technical information. "Nita Farahany on Ethics, Law, and Neurotechnology" https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2023/03/13/229-nita-farahany-on-ethics-law-and-neurotechnology/ https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2023/03/13/229-...

gorgoiler 3y ago
By “unknown third parties” do you mean the hackers? The breach was bad but not that bad — it didn’t include your genetic material. > The stolen data included the person’s name, birth year, relationship labels, the percentage of DNA shared with relatives, ancestry reports and self-reported location. https://techcrunch.com/2023/12/04/23andme-confirms-hackers-stole-ancestry-data-on-6-9-million-users/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/12/04/23andme-confirms-hackers-s...
- consumer451 3y ago
  I meant 23andMe partners, and yes, also the hack, and future hacks. This DB is a goldmine and I take an extremely pessimistic view on infosec. Information wants to be "free" after all. Look at the KSA agents who were implanted at Twitter as an example. I would have to assume that nation state actors would also implant employees at 23andMe. The publicized hack is the one we, and 23andMe, know about. It's just too juicy a target to keep safely guarded in perpetuity. Simply by compiling this information, you are more or less guaranteeing it falling into the wrong hands eventually. This is an example of information which never should have been compiled.

thrtythreeforty 3y ago

There's no law against being a dirtbag but I am definitely still going to blame you for being a dirtbag. You could always choose... not to be a dirtbag. I would rephrase your point, "don't be surprised when a company capitalizes on lack of laws" -- this I agree with. It's virtually a force of nature.