4 ms·

How many child laborers were used to mine the precious metals for those 14 motors and 4 batteries?

syncsynchalt 3y ago
Motors are recycled (as cores and copper). Most of the motors in this car were rebuilt from cores, for example. Batteries are also increasingly recycled, either as units or as their components.
- syndicatedjelly 3y ago
  I genuinely would like to know more about how the material for EV batteries is acquired. If society proposes we all switch to electric cars, then we should know about all the externalities. Not just the ones that are local and convenient for Westerners to think about.
  - syncsynchalt 3y ago
    It depends on the chemistry of the particular battery, we're always inventing new ones for better prices or characteristics. Lithium is often mined from saltwater pumped out of the ground and evaporated in ponds. We can also extract it from seawater if desperate, so there's a price ceiling. It's only a few percent of the battery by mass. Iron is mined, along with the nickel, manganese, aluminum, and so on. Steel is alloyed from several mined elements. Cobalt is also mined but has a lot of negative externalities so we've moved to chemistries and cathodes that are cobalt-free or use relatively little. Carbon, oxygen, and phosphorus have many sources.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      The main problem with cobalt is that it is mined in a country that has little regard for human or child rights, and is also very poor (so people starve if they don't work). By moving away from cobalt, those kids will just starve instead, it also doesn't seem like the right solution. We could always just ask Belgium to solve the mess they made.
    - syndicatedjelly 3y ago
      Thanks, I appreciate the facts. > Cobalt is also mined but has a lot of negative externalities so we've moved to chemistries and cathodes that are cobalt-free or use relatively little. Who is “we” in this sentence? Is there any way to guarantee “cruelty-free” cobalt? Or are the world’s manufacturers forced to source it from mines in conflict zones?
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Refining oil into gasoline (for ICEs) also uses cobalt.
Kirby64 3y ago
For the motors: none. The P85 only uses induction motors, which consist purely of copper windings and steel laminates.
thejazzman 3y ago
I'm impressed not just by how shamelessly blatant your attempt to redirect this conversation is, but that you do it by suggesting your damage is irrelevant because of an implied but unsubstantiated horrendous act.
- syndicatedjelly 3y ago
  Really?
- syndicatedjelly 3y ago
  https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/02/01/1152893248/red-cobalt-congo-drc-mining-siddharth-kara https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/02/01/1152893... Hope you’re just unaware of the situation and need to be educated, and not just willfully ignorant.

Motors are recycled (as cores and copper). Most of the motors in this car were rebuilt from cores, for example. Batteries are also increasingly recycled, either as units or as their components.

syndicatedjelly 3y ago
I genuinely would like to know more about how the material for EV batteries is acquired. If society proposes we all switch to electric cars, then we should know about all the externalities. Not just the ones that are local and convenient for Westerners to think about.
- syncsynchalt 3y ago
  It depends on the chemistry of the particular battery, we're always inventing new ones for better prices or characteristics. Lithium is often mined from saltwater pumped out of the ground and evaporated in ponds. We can also extract it from seawater if desperate, so there's a price ceiling. It's only a few percent of the battery by mass. Iron is mined, along with the nickel, manganese, aluminum, and so on. Steel is alloyed from several mined elements. Cobalt is also mined but has a lot of negative externalities so we've moved to chemistries and cathodes that are cobalt-free or use relatively little. Carbon, oxygen, and phosphorus have many sources.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    The main problem with cobalt is that it is mined in a country that has little regard for human or child rights, and is also very poor (so people starve if they don't work). By moving away from cobalt, those kids will just starve instead, it also doesn't seem like the right solution. We could always just ask Belgium to solve the mess they made.
  - syndicatedjelly 3y ago
    Thanks, I appreciate the facts. > Cobalt is also mined but has a lot of negative externalities so we've moved to chemistries and cathodes that are cobalt-free or use relatively little. Who is “we” in this sentence? Is there any way to guarantee “cruelty-free” cobalt? Or are the world’s manufacturers forced to source it from mines in conflict zones?
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Refining oil into gasoline (for ICEs) also uses cobalt.

Kirby64 3y ago

For the motors: none. The P85 only uses induction motors, which consist purely of copper windings and steel laminates.

thejazzman 3y ago

I'm impressed not just by how shamelessly blatant your attempt to redirect this conversation is, but that you do it by suggesting your damage is irrelevant because of an implied but unsubstantiated horrendous act.

syndicatedjelly 3y ago
Really?
syndicatedjelly 3y ago
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/02/01/1152893248/red-cobalt-congo-drc-mining-siddharth-kara https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/02/01/1152893... Hope you’re just unaware of the situation and need to be educated, and not just willfully ignorant.