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Agreed. The whole things reeks of being desperate. Half the video is jerking themselves off that they've done AI longer than anyone and they "release" (not actu

Agreed. The whole things reeks of being desperate. Half the video is jerking themselves off that they've done AI longer than anyone and they "release" (not actually available in most countries) a model that is only marginally better than the current GPT4 in cherry-picked metrics after nearly a year of lead-time?!?! That's your response? Ouch.

belter 3y ago
The Greybeards Of AI...
confused_boner 3y ago
maybe they are trying to project stability (no pun intended)
refulgentis 3y ago
I worked at Google up through 8 weeks ago and knew there _had_ to be a trick -- You know those stats they're quoting for beating GPT-4 and humans? (both are barely beaten) They're doing K = 32 chain of thought. That means running an _entire self-talk conversation 32 times_. Source: https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind-media/gemini/gemini_1_report.pdf https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind-media/gemini/gemini_..., section 5.1.1 paragraph 2
- kkkkkkk 3y ago
  where are you seeing that 32-shot vs 1-shot comparison drawn? in the pdf you linked it seems like they run it various times using the same technique on both models and just pick the technique which gemini most wins using.
- Jensson 3y ago
  How do you know GPT-4 is 1 shot? The details about it aren't released, it is entirely possible it does stuff in multiple stages. Why wouldn't OpenAI use their most powerful version to get better stats, especially when they don't say how they got it? Google being more open here about what they do is in their favor.
  - jiggawatts 3y ago
    There's a rumour that GPT-4 runs every query either 8x or 16x in parallel, and then picks the "best" answer using an additional AI that is trained for that purpose.
    - mewpmewp2 3y ago
      It would have to pick each token then, no? Because you can get a streaming response, which would completely invalidate the idea of the answer being picked after.
      - refulgentis 3y ago
        It's false, it's the 9 months-down-the-line telephone game of a unsourced rumor re: mixture of experts model. Drives me absolutely crazy. Extended musings on it, please ignore unless curious about evolution patterns of memes: Funnily enough, it's gotten _easier_ to talk about over time -- i.e. on day 1 you can't criticize it because it's "just a rumor, how do you know?" -- on day 100 it's even worse because that effect hasn't subsided much, and it spread like wildfire. On day 270, the same thing that gave it genetic fitness, the alluring simplicity of "ah yes, there's 8x going on", has become the core and only feature of the Nth round of the telephone game. There's no more big expert-sounding words around it that make it seem plausible.
        theendisney2 3y ago
        It thinks about your question forever...
        jacquesm 3y ago
        That genetic fitness is exactly why those stupid conspiracy theories refuse to die out: they've adapted to their hosts.
        FuckButtons 3y ago
        As with most zombie theories, it exists because there is a vacuum of evidence to the contrary, not because it’s true.
TaylorAlexander 3y ago
I’m impressed that it’s multimodal and includes audio. GPT-4V doesn’t include audio afaik. Also I guess I don’t see it as critical that it’s a big leap. It’s more like “That’s a nice model you came up with, you must have worked real hard on it. Oh look, my team can do that too.” Good for recruiting too. You can work on world class AI at an org that is stable and reliable.
- SeanAnderson 3y ago
  https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt-can-now-see-hear-and-speak https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt-can-now-see-hear-and-speak I think it's app only though
  - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
    Ah that’s right. I guess my question is, is it a true multimodal model (able to produce arbitrary audio) or is it a speech to text system (OpenAI has a model called Whisper for this) feeding text to the model and then using text to speech to read it aloud. Though now that I am reading the Gemini technical report, it can only receive audio as input, it can’t produce audio as output. Still based on quickly glancing at their technical report it seems Gemini might have superior audio input capabilities. I am not sure of this though now that I think about it.
    - sho_hn 3y ago
      One of the demo videos explicitly addresses this point: https://youtu.be/D64QD7Swr3s?si=_bBa9aPmqGbo-Iej https://youtu.be/D64QD7Swr3s?si=_bBa9aPmqGbo-Iej
      - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
        Oh that’s actually pretty good then. It also seems it does output audio despite the PDF from google I was reading saying otherwise. Hmm.
  - nojvek 3y ago
cedws 3y ago
Google are masters at jerking themselves off. I mean come on... "Gemini era"? "Improving billions of people’s lives"? Tone it down a bit. It screams desperation to be seen as ahead of OpenAI.
- pb7 3y ago
  Google has billions of users whose lives are improved by their products. What is far fetched about this AI improving those product lines? Sounds like it's you that needs to calm down a bit. God forbid we get some competition.
  - theendisney2 3y ago
    Im a user, no way my life was improved! If anything they made me sad and miserable. It gives all these nice looking things that you really should not use, you want to but cant, you make the mistake anyway, it is nice for a while then taken away. It would be funny if it only happened 10 or 20 times.
    - pb7 3y ago
      In other words, you keep trying them because they improve your life. This comment would be funny if it wasn't posted 20 times a day.
      - theendisney2 3y ago
        It needs to be repeated endlessly. Im sure they will deliver a great api for this ai then change it in a way that breaks everything. You will fix yours I will delete mine. I will feel dumb. You will improve your life again and again basically 20+ times. Enjoy!
    - inquirerGeneral 3y ago
      [dead]
  - gitaarik 3y ago
    If you mean with "lives improved" that they have locked people into their products, spying on them, profiling them, making us into their product for them to make lots of money from, yeah, you're totally right.
teleforce 3y ago
Have you seen the demo video, it is really impressive and AFAIK OpenAI does not has similar features product offering at the moment, demo or released. Google essentially claimed a novel approach of native multi-modal LLM unlike OpenAI non-native approach and doing so according to them has the potential to further improve LLM the state-of-the-art. They have also backup their claims in a paper for the world to see and the results for ultra version of the Gemini are encouraging, only losing in the sentence completion dataset to ChatGPT-4. Remember the new Gemini native multi-modal has just started and it has reached version 1.0. Imagine if it is in version 4 as ChatGPT is now. Competition is always good, does not matter if it is desperate or not, because at the end the users win.
- mrbungie 3y ago
  I can use GPT-4 right now. Until I can use Gemini, I wouldn't believe Google a thing.
  - teleforce 3y ago
    Apparently, now you can since Bard is already powered by Gemini Pro [1]: [1] Google’s Bard chatbot is getting way better thanks to Gemini: https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/6/23989744/google-bard-gemini-model-chatbot-ai https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/6/23989744/google-bard-gemi...
- cfiggers 3y ago
  If they put the same team on that Gemini video as they do on Pixel promos, you're better off assuming half of it is fake and the other half exaggerated. Don't buy into marketing. If it's not in your own hands to judge for yourself, then it might as well be literally science fiction. I do agree with you that competition is good and when massive companies compete it's us who win!
  - hackerlight 3y ago
    The hype video should be taken with a grain of salt but the level of capability displayed in the video seems probable in the not too distant future even if Gemini can't currently deliver it. All the technical pieces are there for this to be a reality eventually. Exciting times ahead.
andai 3y ago
This reminds me of their last AI launch. When Bard came out, it wasn't available in EU for weeks (months?). When it finally arrived, it was worse than GPT-3.
- Pxtl 3y ago
  Still isn't available in Canada. Silicon Valley hates Canada.

belter 3y ago

The Greybeards Of AI...

confused_boner 3y ago

maybe they are trying to project stability (no pun intended)

refulgentis 3y ago

I worked at Google up through 8 weeks ago and knew there _had_ to be a trick -- You know those stats they're quoting for beating GPT-4 and humans? (both are barely beaten) They're doing K = 32 chain of thought. That means running an _entire self-talk conversation 32 times_. Source: https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind-media/gemini/gemini_1_report.pdf https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind-media/gemini/gemini_..., section 5.1.1 paragraph 2

kkkkkkk 3y ago
where are you seeing that 32-shot vs 1-shot comparison drawn? in the pdf you linked it seems like they run it various times using the same technique on both models and just pick the technique which gemini most wins using.
Jensson 3y ago
How do you know GPT-4 is 1 shot? The details about it aren't released, it is entirely possible it does stuff in multiple stages. Why wouldn't OpenAI use their most powerful version to get better stats, especially when they don't say how they got it? Google being more open here about what they do is in their favor.
- jiggawatts 3y ago
  There's a rumour that GPT-4 runs every query either 8x or 16x in parallel, and then picks the "best" answer using an additional AI that is trained for that purpose.
  - mewpmewp2 3y ago
    It would have to pick each token then, no? Because you can get a streaming response, which would completely invalidate the idea of the answer being picked after.
    - refulgentis 3y ago
      It's false, it's the 9 months-down-the-line telephone game of a unsourced rumor re: mixture of experts model. Drives me absolutely crazy. Extended musings on it, please ignore unless curious about evolution patterns of memes: Funnily enough, it's gotten _easier_ to talk about over time -- i.e. on day 1 you can't criticize it because it's "just a rumor, how do you know?" -- on day 100 it's even worse because that effect hasn't subsided much, and it spread like wildfire. On day 270, the same thing that gave it genetic fitness, the alluring simplicity of "ah yes, there's 8x going on", has become the core and only feature of the Nth round of the telephone game. There's no more big expert-sounding words around it that make it seem plausible.
      - theendisney2 3y ago
        It thinks about your question forever...
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        That genetic fitness is exactly why those stupid conspiracy theories refuse to die out: they've adapted to their hosts.
      - FuckButtons 3y ago
        As with most zombie theories, it exists because there is a vacuum of evidence to the contrary, not because it’s true.

TaylorAlexander 3y ago

I’m impressed that it’s multimodal and includes audio. GPT-4V doesn’t include audio afaik. Also I guess I don’t see it as critical that it’s a big leap. It’s more like “That’s a nice model you came up with, you must have worked real hard on it. Oh look, my team can do that too.” Good for recruiting too. You can work on world class AI at an org that is stable and reliable.

SeanAnderson 3y ago
https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt-can-now-see-hear-and-speak https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt-can-now-see-hear-and-speak I think it's app only though
- TaylorAlexander 3y ago
  Ah that’s right. I guess my question is, is it a true multimodal model (able to produce arbitrary audio) or is it a speech to text system (OpenAI has a model called Whisper for this) feeding text to the model and then using text to speech to read it aloud. Though now that I am reading the Gemini technical report, it can only receive audio as input, it can’t produce audio as output. Still based on quickly glancing at their technical report it seems Gemini might have superior audio input capabilities. I am not sure of this though now that I think about it.
  - sho_hn 3y ago
    One of the demo videos explicitly addresses this point: https://youtu.be/D64QD7Swr3s?si=_bBa9aPmqGbo-Iej https://youtu.be/D64QD7Swr3s?si=_bBa9aPmqGbo-Iej
    - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
      Oh that’s actually pretty good then. It also seems it does output audio despite the PDF from google I was reading saying otherwise. Hmm.
- nojvek 3y ago

cedws 3y ago

Google are masters at jerking themselves off. I mean come on... "Gemini era"? "Improving billions of people’s lives"? Tone it down a bit. It screams desperation to be seen as ahead of OpenAI.

pb7 3y ago
Google has billions of users whose lives are improved by their products. What is far fetched about this AI improving those product lines? Sounds like it's you that needs to calm down a bit. God forbid we get some competition.
- theendisney2 3y ago
  Im a user, no way my life was improved! If anything they made me sad and miserable. It gives all these nice looking things that you really should not use, you want to but cant, you make the mistake anyway, it is nice for a while then taken away. It would be funny if it only happened 10 or 20 times.
  - pb7 3y ago
    In other words, you keep trying them because they improve your life. This comment would be funny if it wasn't posted 20 times a day.
    - theendisney2 3y ago
      It needs to be repeated endlessly. Im sure they will deliver a great api for this ai then change it in a way that breaks everything. You will fix yours I will delete mine. I will feel dumb. You will improve your life again and again basically 20+ times. Enjoy!
  - inquirerGeneral 3y ago
    [dead]
- gitaarik 3y ago
  If you mean with "lives improved" that they have locked people into their products, spying on them, profiling them, making us into their product for them to make lots of money from, yeah, you're totally right.

teleforce 3y ago

Have you seen the demo video, it is really impressive and AFAIK OpenAI does not has similar features product offering at the moment, demo or released. Google essentially claimed a novel approach of native multi-modal LLM unlike OpenAI non-native approach and doing so according to them has the potential to further improve LLM the state-of-the-art. They have also backup their claims in a paper for the world to see and the results for ultra version of the Gemini are encouraging, only losing in the sentence completion dataset to ChatGPT-4. Remember the new Gemini native multi-modal has just started and it has reached version 1.0. Imagine if it is in version 4 as ChatGPT is now. Competition is always good, does not matter if it is desperate or not, because at the end the users win.

mrbungie 3y ago
I can use GPT-4 right now. Until I can use Gemini, I wouldn't believe Google a thing.
- teleforce 3y ago
  Apparently, now you can since Bard is already powered by Gemini Pro [1]: [1] Google’s Bard chatbot is getting way better thanks to Gemini: https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/6/23989744/google-bard-gemini-model-chatbot-ai https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/6/23989744/google-bard-gemi...
cfiggers 3y ago
If they put the same team on that Gemini video as they do on Pixel promos, you're better off assuming half of it is fake and the other half exaggerated. Don't buy into marketing. If it's not in your own hands to judge for yourself, then it might as well be literally science fiction. I do agree with you that competition is good and when massive companies compete it's us who win!
- hackerlight 3y ago
  The hype video should be taken with a grain of salt but the level of capability displayed in the video seems probable in the not too distant future even if Gemini can't currently deliver it. All the technical pieces are there for this to be a reality eventually. Exciting times ahead.

andai 3y ago

This reminds me of their last AI launch. When Bard came out, it wasn't available in EU for weeks (months?). When it finally arrived, it was worse than GPT-3.

Pxtl 3y ago
Still isn't available in Canada. Silicon Valley hates Canada.