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From what I understand the strikers aren't asking for more money or anything specific other than Tesla to honor collective bargaining with unions Tesla cannot h

From what I understand the strikers aren't asking for more money or anything specific other than Tesla to honor collective bargaining with unions Tesla cannot have different deals with different shops, has to respect what it agrees with unions.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bitshiftfaced 3y ago
It's as much about the Swedish unions not wanting a new precedent set as it is about Tesla not wanting a new precedent set.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Elon simply doesn't believe in unions and wants to operate like a dictatorship (his public personal history has a substantial paper trail on this matter, both with personal and business relationships). It works until enough people say no. Certainly, just as Elon disagrees with the idea of unions, there are likely enough folks who disagree with the idea of Elon. If he wants to be remembered as the dude global labor had to organize against, I mean, the bar is already pretty low where he's at but perhaps we have yet to hit bedrock. Probably with a bit to be said about dying a hero or living long enough to become the villain through the appropriate lens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_and_unions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_and_unions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sctgA2qa-rA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sctgA2qa-rA
  - epolanski 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - andsoitis 3y ago
    > If he wants to be remembered as the dude global labor had to organize against, I mean, the bar is already pretty low where he's at but perhaps we have yet to hit bedrock. Probably with a bit to be said about dying a hero or living long enough to become the villain through the appropriate lens. Highly recommend watching the full interview that Andrew Ross Sorkin did with Elon Musk (it is the one where he told advertisers to go fuck themselves) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BfMuHDfGJI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BfMuHDfGJI It is wide ranging and fascinating. In it, he explicitly says that he doesn't do things in order for other people to like him. Instead, he focuses on making the best products (e.g. best cars, best rockets, best satellite).
    - marricks 3y ago
      MANY things he does are explicitly to be liked. That’s why he posts all the time, goes on interviews, shows up on SNL. Buys a social media company then burns company hours on figuring out why he isn’t the most viewed person on it. He really, really, wants to be internet liked, that’s he claims he doesn’t care about.
      - ethbr1 3y ago
        I'd hazard it's more important to him to be famous, whatever the sentiment, rather than liked.
        marricks 3y ago
        No, he wouldn’t get into so many mudslinging fights if he just cared about being famous. He desperately wants to be liked and thought of as cool.
        ehvatum 3y ago
        There is a melancholy, defeated aspect to saying someone with such notable imagination and success as Elon is motivated only by insecurity.
        marricks 3y ago
        I think many deeply insecure tech bros relate to him so much because they don't realize they themselves are that same sort of insecure. Also, I never said he was only motivated by it, he is just obviously extremely insecure.
        vkou 3y ago
        I don't know what motivates him, but his outward behaviour is that of an incredibly insecure individual, who is constantly seeking validation, and often throws a tantrum when subject to criticism.
        ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  - yetanother12345 3y ago
    > Elon simply doesn't believe ... IMHO the focus here on HN and elsewhere on the antics of this person leads the debate astray somewhat. (Actually on every single activity this man is involved with, not just cars.) I do not find it beneficial. Tesla is a multinational multi-million corporation trying to compete in a market that is undergoing a technological revolution. And, a very American corporation at that (as in not exactly guided by an European value set). Tesla is not one single man. If you want understanding you should consider that. As for the current situation in Scandinavia, this company will have to adapt or go home eventually. Option two is not really an option, so they will adapt. Pressure against them goes only one way from here, up. Same for loss in profits. It started in one country, now they already face trouble in three. "When in Rome..."
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > Tesla not wanting a new precedent set Like respecting local laws and customs? Same people who deride local laws in Europe get really worked up when someone tries it in US.
  - bitshiftfaced 3y ago
    What Swedish law did Tesla disrespect?
yreg 3y ago
From what I understand only a small portion of Tesla workers are on strike. It's mostly union members working at other companies and institutions who are striking. E.g. the postal office workers refused to deliver Tesla's mail which is baffling to me.
- kristofferR 3y ago
  I get that proper unions are pretty baffling from a US perspective, where people don't mind having thousands peeing in bottles at work at Amazon as long as they get the spoon they ordered the next day. Us Scandinavians on the other hand find it pretty baffling that someone would just roll over to a megalomaniac who clearly states he would like to destroy what makes our countries great, our unions and working conditions.
  - yreg 3y ago
    I'm a European working in a country with strong labour laws. But I wouldn't want a specific union to have a monopoly over my entire country and in case I don't want them to they shouldn't meddle with my work. And to be honest I believe that the state postal workers should have absolutely no say on whether someone gets their mail delivered.
    - aaomidi 3y ago
      I mean, you’re wrong because the only way to implement what you’re suggesting is policing unions. The whole point of the union system is to be a separate pillar of power to the state to keep it in check.
      - yreg 3y ago
        >you’re wrong because the only way to implement what you’re suggesting I'm not suggesting anything.
    - kwhitefoot 3y ago
      > state postal workers Actually they are no longer state postal workers. PostNord is owned by the Swedish and Danish states but it is not a part of the state as post offices used to be, it's no longer the Royal Mail.
holgerschurig 3y ago
German news media clearly say that it's not about DIRECT asking for more money. In Europe a lot of countries have a system of "Tarifvertrag" ("tarrif contract", but really "collective agreement"). In such contracts the workers union of a section (e.g. metal) do a contract with the business union of the employers. They settle then down to "give 28 days of holidays and x EUR per month to each" ... and then they won't strike. The special thing about this "Tarifvertrag" is now that EVERYBODY benefits from them, union member or not! In Sweden, for example, such general tariffs apply to 90% of the employees. So you can see how normal it's seen there. Anything that fights against this normality is thus seen not favorably (in Denmark it's 80%, in Germany it's much less, just 51%). Now, Tesla Sweden says that they don't won't to follow such a model, since Eon Musky is, as many US brainwashed business people, is strictly anti-union. Whatever comes from unions is surely coming right from hell :-) And so in October 130 Tesla employees in various service stations went to strike. Musky didn't bulge. In November 470 employees did strike. Musky still thinking he can work against unions (not with them, like it is custom in Europe, maybe with the exception of France, you can't work with their unions ...). Then workers from other swedish unions said "We don't load/unload for Tesla in Sweden". And now danish and and norwegian workers joined as well. Currently 12 different unions joined the "make Tesla think a bit more european" strike.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  > , as many US brainwashed business people Isn't Musk actually born South African? Then he became Canadian and lastly American? Not that it makes much of a difference, I just find it odd as labelling him as US brainwashed when canonically, his origin isn't the US.
  - forgetfreeman 3y ago
    Given his eagerness to champion the kinds of anti-worker policies that are dirt common in the US the critique isn't baseless.
  - rchaud 3y ago
    Why would it be odd? He finished his schooling in the US and his first full-time job was at the company that became Paypal, also in the US. His personal wealth is because of the American financial system. He is absolutely brainwashed ("influenced" if you must) by US politics and business regulations.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

bitshiftfaced 3y ago

It's as much about the Swedish unions not wanting a new precedent set as it is about Tesla not wanting a new precedent set.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Elon simply doesn't believe in unions and wants to operate like a dictatorship (his public personal history has a substantial paper trail on this matter, both with personal and business relationships). It works until enough people say no. Certainly, just as Elon disagrees with the idea of unions, there are likely enough folks who disagree with the idea of Elon. If he wants to be remembered as the dude global labor had to organize against, I mean, the bar is already pretty low where he's at but perhaps we have yet to hit bedrock. Probably with a bit to be said about dying a hero or living long enough to become the villain through the appropriate lens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_and_unions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_and_unions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sctgA2qa-rA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sctgA2qa-rA
- epolanski 3y ago
  [flagged]
- andsoitis 3y ago
  > If he wants to be remembered as the dude global labor had to organize against, I mean, the bar is already pretty low where he's at but perhaps we have yet to hit bedrock. Probably with a bit to be said about dying a hero or living long enough to become the villain through the appropriate lens. Highly recommend watching the full interview that Andrew Ross Sorkin did with Elon Musk (it is the one where he told advertisers to go fuck themselves) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BfMuHDfGJI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BfMuHDfGJI It is wide ranging and fascinating. In it, he explicitly says that he doesn't do things in order for other people to like him. Instead, he focuses on making the best products (e.g. best cars, best rockets, best satellite).
  - marricks 3y ago
    MANY things he does are explicitly to be liked. That’s why he posts all the time, goes on interviews, shows up on SNL. Buys a social media company then burns company hours on figuring out why he isn’t the most viewed person on it. He really, really, wants to be internet liked, that’s he claims he doesn’t care about.
    - ethbr1 3y ago
      I'd hazard it's more important to him to be famous, whatever the sentiment, rather than liked.
      - marricks 3y ago
        No, he wouldn’t get into so many mudslinging fights if he just cared about being famous. He desperately wants to be liked and thought of as cool.
        ehvatum 3y ago
        There is a melancholy, defeated aspect to saying someone with such notable imagination and success as Elon is motivated only by insecurity.
        marricks 3y ago
        I think many deeply insecure tech bros relate to him so much because they don't realize they themselves are that same sort of insecure. Also, I never said he was only motivated by it, he is just obviously extremely insecure.
        vkou 3y ago
        I don't know what motivates him, but his outward behaviour is that of an incredibly insecure individual, who is constantly seeking validation, and often throws a tantrum when subject to criticism.
        ClumsyPilot 3y ago
- yetanother12345 3y ago
  > Elon simply doesn't believe ... IMHO the focus here on HN and elsewhere on the antics of this person leads the debate astray somewhat. (Actually on every single activity this man is involved with, not just cars.) I do not find it beneficial. Tesla is a multinational multi-million corporation trying to compete in a market that is undergoing a technological revolution. And, a very American corporation at that (as in not exactly guided by an European value set). Tesla is not one single man. If you want understanding you should consider that. As for the current situation in Scandinavia, this company will have to adapt or go home eventually. Option two is not really an option, so they will adapt. Pressure against them goes only one way from here, up. Same for loss in profits. It started in one country, now they already face trouble in three. "When in Rome..."
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> Tesla not wanting a new precedent set Like respecting local laws and customs? Same people who deride local laws in Europe get really worked up when someone tries it in US.
- bitshiftfaced 3y ago
  What Swedish law did Tesla disrespect?

yreg 3y ago

From what I understand only a small portion of Tesla workers are on strike. It's mostly union members working at other companies and institutions who are striking. E.g. the postal office workers refused to deliver Tesla's mail which is baffling to me.

kristofferR 3y ago
I get that proper unions are pretty baffling from a US perspective, where people don't mind having thousands peeing in bottles at work at Amazon as long as they get the spoon they ordered the next day. Us Scandinavians on the other hand find it pretty baffling that someone would just roll over to a megalomaniac who clearly states he would like to destroy what makes our countries great, our unions and working conditions.
- yreg 3y ago
  I'm a European working in a country with strong labour laws. But I wouldn't want a specific union to have a monopoly over my entire country and in case I don't want them to they shouldn't meddle with my work. And to be honest I believe that the state postal workers should have absolutely no say on whether someone gets their mail delivered.
  - aaomidi 3y ago
    I mean, you’re wrong because the only way to implement what you’re suggesting is policing unions. The whole point of the union system is to be a separate pillar of power to the state to keep it in check.
    - yreg 3y ago
      >you’re wrong because the only way to implement what you’re suggesting I'm not suggesting anything.
  - kwhitefoot 3y ago
    > state postal workers Actually they are no longer state postal workers. PostNord is owned by the Swedish and Danish states but it is not a part of the state as post offices used to be, it's no longer the Royal Mail.

holgerschurig 3y ago

German news media clearly say that it's not about DIRECT asking for more money. In Europe a lot of countries have a system of "Tarifvertrag" ("tarrif contract", but really "collective agreement"). In such contracts the workers union of a section (e.g. metal) do a contract with the business union of the employers. They settle then down to "give 28 days of holidays and x EUR per month to each" ... and then they won't strike. The special thing about this "Tarifvertrag" is now that EVERYBODY benefits from them, union member or not! In Sweden, for example, such general tariffs apply to 90% of the employees. So you can see how normal it's seen there. Anything that fights against this normality is thus seen not favorably (in Denmark it's 80%, in Germany it's much less, just 51%). Now, Tesla Sweden says that they don't won't to follow such a model, since Eon Musky is, as many US brainwashed business people, is strictly anti-union. Whatever comes from unions is surely coming right from hell :-) And so in October 130 Tesla employees in various service stations went to strike. Musky didn't bulge. In November 470 employees did strike. Musky still thinking he can work against unions (not with them, like it is custom in Europe, maybe with the exception of France, you can't work with their unions ...). Then workers from other swedish unions said "We don't load/unload for Tesla in Sweden". And now danish and and norwegian workers joined as well. Currently 12 different unions joined the "make Tesla think a bit more european" strike.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
> , as many US brainwashed business people Isn't Musk actually born South African? Then he became Canadian and lastly American? Not that it makes much of a difference, I just find it odd as labelling him as US brainwashed when canonically, his origin isn't the US.
- forgetfreeman 3y ago
  Given his eagerness to champion the kinds of anti-worker policies that are dirt common in the US the critique isn't baseless.
- rchaud 3y ago
  Why would it be odd? He finished his schooling in the US and his first full-time job was at the company that became Paypal, also in the US. His personal wealth is because of the American financial system. He is absolutely brainwashed ("influenced" if you must) by US politics and business regulations.