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Norway Joins Denmark in Swedish Tesla Strike/Blockade
- pimpampum 3y agoTo clarify, it's a workers union that is joining in solidarity an action of their neighbor country union.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoI would love to see an EU wide movement.
- mrweasel 3y agoFor the Danish reporting there is an indication that what the unions really want is for Germany to join as that would create massive problems for Tesla.
- psychlops 3y agoIsn't that most of EU politics? Getting Germany to go along with what they want?
- mrweasel 3y agoIt does tend to help. I read somewhere that "Germany is financing the EU, but Bavaria is financing Germany", that probably not entirely true, but it is fun to think about.
- lnsru 3y agoI am in Munich right now. Bavaria should start doing something about this. Snow from Friday is still not taken care of. Public transportation still does not work. Pathetic.
- piva00 3y agoA friend of mine was supposed to move from Berlin to München for a job during last Saturday. He can't, trains were fucked, airport was closed, flight canceled and you can't trust DB during the best of days and weather, no way to be sure you will get there unless you have a car. Seems to be a complete clusterfuck, as someone living in the Nordics it's pretty funny to think that a bit of snow can simply grind to a halt the richest area of Germany.
- croes 3y agoBecause most employees cannot participate in wealth.
- fl7305 3y agoSouthern Sweden with 80% of the Swedish population rarely sees much snow. A few centimeters can cause big problems there too.
- patall 3y agoExactly. Stockholm experienced 10cm of snow last week and now ~-15°C (well, -20 in Uppsala) and the trains are in total chaos
- shzhdbi09gv8ioi 3y agoNews flash. Stockholm is not in southern sweden. Also Stockholm subway is famous for breaking down even if a single leave fall on the tracks.
- patall 3y ago> Southern Sweden with 80% of the Swedish population > Stockholm is not in southern sweden Are you sure this the level of comments you are supposed to post here?
- 3y ago
- fallingknife 3y agoYou can make a good argument the other way, though. The common currency results in a weaker currency than the Deutsch mark would be if Germany wasn't in the Euro. This results in German exports being much more competitive. So in a way, the EU finances Germany.
- psychlops 3y agoUnless, of course, they want to buy imports with their not strong currency.
- croes 3y agoGermany can't, a judge from the Nazis times prohibited such strikes in the sixties. Edit: Seems like some need a history lesson about Hans Carl Nipperdey https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Carl_Nipperdey https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Carl_Nipperdey
- guerrilla 3y agoIG Metall already expressed solidarity, so it's really more of a question of how much it spreads and Germany and what particular actions they take.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoExpressing solidarity is the equivalent of sending "likes" or thoughts and prayers on social media.
- coince 3y agoAbove atricle would prove otherwise.
- vincnetas 3y agoNope, it called solidarity strike. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidarity_action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidarity_action
- croes 3y agoWhich are forbidden in Germany. Thanks to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Carl_Nipperdey https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Carl_Nipperdey who already stripped worker of their rights in the Nazi regime.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoYou forgot to mention Schröder's famous Agenda 2010[1] which defanged German unions and they didn't fight back: "There were no strikes against Agenda 2010 as the German constitution prohibits politically motivated strikes, but some demonstrations at least were organized and supported by the unions." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_2010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_2010
- kristofferR 3y ago
- 433f 3y ago[dead]
- mathverse 3y agoWould not happen. Musk should have established the factory in EE where the local labor would bend over to him.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoTo be fair, lack of labor regulations and "bending over to foreign investors", including German and EU ones, is what got Eastern Europe out if the grim post communism poverty. You can't have strong unions and labor regulations when you don't have your own captive world leading domestic industry like IKEA, Siemens, SAAB, Novo Nordisk, Bosch, Airbus, etc. Nobody would invest in your country.
- p_l 3y agoIt's also what's crippling progress in many places in Eastern Europe. Depressed wages and fighting on price only to be assembly plant for higher-tech components does not let you build local prosperity, it makes you fungible cheap labour.
- ponector 3y agoBetter to be a fungible labour on the assembly plant than be without the work. The alternative for eastern Europeans always was to go to UK or Germany and be a fungible labour there. Current strategy increased quality of life in EE countries. So far that in main cities in Poland housing prices are 4000-5000 USD per square meter.
- p_l 3y agoHousing prices are so high because there's not enough housing and sellers can dictate prices. And that prosperity isn't due to low-paid fungible labour, although believe me, the stereotypical polish boss tries hard to drive down the price of labour... And while it's better to be with work than without, living paycheck to paycheck in fear is not that great either, and doesn't exactly provide ways out. So sometimes we're left with just what solidarity we can arrange without legal representation, like the time entirety of one of my former workplaces left the job one day for what american management did to one of them.
- masklinn 3y agoFWIW southern unions are a lot weaker than the german and Nordic ones. So while they may or may not declare solitary, it would have a significantly smaller effect.
- waihtis 3y agoThe EU economy is doing so great, we can surely afford to introduce even more bureaucracy around doing business - perhaps even a new, separate committee that all business has to go through!
- derelicta 3y agoYou are right. Those businesses should simply be managed by the workers themselves. This way we wouldn't need parallel structures and we would still get proper representation for whose who create wealth themselves.
- waihtis 3y agoPerhaps (and hopefully) you're being sarcastic with that marxist lingo, but thinking the entire wealth resides in employees is like thinking a set of wheels is equivalent to a car. Integral, but useless without the organized framework around it.
- derelicta 3y agoWhy would I be sarcastic? I just think that if taxation without representation is theft, so must be wealth-creation without representation. But thankfully workers aren't mere wheels, and they can design the said framework themselves! Pretty much like peasants got to imagine parliements so as to gain the natural right to rule over themselves, despite kings and lords trying to convince them it was a silly and dangerous idea.
- roschdal 3y agoHurra
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- epolanski 3y agoFrom what I understand the strikers aren't asking for more money or anything specific other than Tesla to honor collective bargaining with unions Tesla cannot have different deals with different shops, has to respect what it agrees with unions.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- bitshiftfaced 3y agoIt's as much about the Swedish unions not wanting a new precedent set as it is about Tesla not wanting a new precedent set.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoElon simply doesn't believe in unions and wants to operate like a dictatorship (his public personal history has a substantial paper trail on this matter, both with personal and business relationships). It works until enough people say no. Certainly, just as Elon disagrees with the idea of unions, there are likely enough folks who disagree with the idea of Elon. If he wants to be remembered as the dude global labor had to organize against, I mean, the bar is already pretty low where he's at but perhaps we have yet to hit bedrock. Probably with a bit to be said about dying a hero or living long enough to become the villain through the appropriate lens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_and_unions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_and_unions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sctgA2qa-rA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sctgA2qa-rA
- epolanski 3y ago[flagged]
- andsoitis 3y ago> If he wants to be remembered as the dude global labor had to organize against, I mean, the bar is already pretty low where he's at but perhaps we have yet to hit bedrock. Probably with a bit to be said about dying a hero or living long enough to become the villain through the appropriate lens. Highly recommend watching the full interview that Andrew Ross Sorkin did with Elon Musk (it is the one where he told advertisers to go fuck themselves) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BfMuHDfGJI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BfMuHDfGJI It is wide ranging and fascinating. In it, he explicitly says that he doesn't do things in order for other people to like him. Instead, he focuses on making the best products (e.g. best cars, best rockets, best satellite).
- magicalhippo 3y agoI posted a Norwegian news article covering it here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38542739#38542770 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38542739#38542770
- 433f 3y ago[dead]
- 433f 3y ago[dead]
- sorenjan 3y agoThis and the Danish solidarity actions are mainly to prevent Tesla from shipping cars meant for the Swedish market to Danish or Norwegian ports and then trucking them to Sweden. The Swedish transport union stopped unloading Tesla cars at Swedish ports November 7, but Tesla Y was still one of the most sold car models in Sweden in November (second place between Volvo XC40 and XC60).
- pbasista 3y agoI believe that Tesla does not need ships to transport Tesla Model Ys from Giga Berlin to Sweden. They can use railroad. Or trucks.
- cultureswitch 3y agoBoats are immensely better though. When they work.
- mananaysiempre 3y agoTFA also mentions Danish truckers. I’m not sure what the current state of Swedish land transport workers is in this regard, but given even the Swedish postal service has been refusing to deliver Tesla’s mail, I doubt they’ll be the weak link here.
- KeplerBoy 3y agoYou don't need swedish truckers though. Polish or German truckers will happily deliver your stuff to Sweden.
- TehCorwiz 3y agoAt a higher cost most likely.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoOr a lower cost. Aren't Polish tuckers generally paid less than Swedish ones?
- 43f567 3y ago[dead]
- paulirotta 3y agoIn English https://www-svt-se.translate.goog/nyheter/utrikes/aven-norge-dras-in-i-teslastrejken--3vcx0b?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-svt-se.translate.goog/nyheter/utrikes/aven-norge...
- njarboe 3y agoFrom what I understand Tesla employees in Sweden do not want to join a/the union. The IF Metall union I believe. So these actions are unions trying to force people to do something they don't want to do. If people are happy working for Tesla without a union (stock options, flexible work rules, etc.) from my (American) perspective, why should they be forced to create an additional administrative system you would have to deal with. Are all people represented by unions in Sweden? If so, this situation makes more sense to me. It could be seen more as preserving the culture of Sweden than just an act against one company. If not, why are the unions not ganging up on other companies?
- holgerschurig 3y agoWell, then you completely misunderstanding things. It's not about joining, not at all. Actually what they ask for changes things for all employees of an industry (e.g. cars, or generally metal), not just for unionized workers. So let me explain on this, as european union culture is VERY different from US union culture. In Europe a lot of countries have a system of "Tarifvertrag" ("tarrif contract", but really "collective agreement"). In such contracts the workers union of a section (e.g. metal) do a contract with the business union of the employers. They settle then down to "give 28 days of holidays and x EUR per month to each" ... and then they won't strike for some time, e.g. 2 years. After this, they negotiate anew. The special thing about this "Tarifvertrag" is now that EVERYBODY benefits from them, union member or not! In Sweden, for example, such general tariffs apply to 90% of the employees. So you can see how normal it's seen there. Anything that fights against this normality is thus seen not favorably (in Denmark it's 80% of all employees, in Germany it's much less, just 51% --- but still way more than in the US). Now, Tesla Sweden says that they don't won't to follow such a model. The collective agreement is to them null and void. It seems that Elon Musky is, as many US brainwashed business people, strictly anti-union. Whatever comes from unions is surely coming right from hell :-) They have NEVER learned that with good unions you can have "peace at work", or more motivated people. The effect of this is visible, e.g. when you look at efficiency of e.g. german workers compared to their US counterparts. And this despite --- due to unions --- e.g. german cashiers can sit while checking people out. Horrors to US employee ... but effectively better for the people. So, in my view, US business people never learned how to use unions to their advantage --- which clearly is possible! Now, with Musky's staunch "we ignore unions" stance, some reaction had to happen. Actually it was an escalation: * in October 130 Tesla employees in various service stations went to strike * in November 470 employees did strike * now late December workers from other swedish unions said "We don't load/unload for Tesla in Sweden" * and now, in early December, Danish and and Norwegian workers joined as well Currently 12 different unions joined the "make Tesla think a bit more european" strike.
- e-i-o-a 3y ago[dead]
- garblegarble 3y ago>PostNord, the leading postal service has also joined the solidarity strike Given PostNord's less than stellar efficiency, this could be entirely unintentional on their part :-)
- e-i-o-a 3y agoHaha very true
- nylon_remedy 3y agoOver 90 percent of Swedish workers are covered by collective bargain agreement. https://akademssr.se/lon-karriar/yrkesfragor/chef/anstallning-och-avtal/arbetsratt-chefer/kollektivavtalet https://akademssr.se/lon-karriar/yrkesfragor/chef/anstallnin... https://www.mi.se/nyheter/2022/kollektivavtal-sa-ser-de-vita-flackarna-ut/ https://www.mi.se/nyheter/2022/kollektivavtal-sa-ser-de-vita...
- e-i-o-a 3y ago[dead]
- nabla9 3y agoMore additional information that might be worth knowing especially for American friends. Sweden (like many other countries) engages in sectoral bargaining where trade unions or labor unions make a collective agreement that covers all companies in the sector. Trade unions form confederations demarcated by occupation and they negotiate with their counterpart employer organisations to get deals that cover most of the sector. In other words, there are existing labor agreements from multiple sectors that cover millions of workers. Tesla has the bargaining power is fly shit against unions and confederations that represent 80-90 percent of the Swedish workforce.
- jplrssn 3y ago
- thatwasunusual 3y agoThankfully, Elon loves Norway. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/01/why-elon-musk-loves-norway.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/01/why-elon-musk-loves-norway.h...
- stiray 3y agoI think that whole thing is just a huge misunderstanding of elmu thinking that whole world works like USA. And even in USA, union members in average earn 18% more than others. On the other side, strike and unionizing is one of basic workers rights here and you just don't fight unions in EU. As you will be losing more money than if you get to an agreement with them. When elmu started his crusade against unions, I was laughing: "another USA manager that doesn't understand that he is no longer in states". But I never thought that he will be stupid enough to continue. --- edit --- I think also that most of young in USA and EU are in misunderstanding what Musk did and what he is fighting against. But I think they should and they SHOULD understand what solidarity means and what it can do. And why employers are trying to discredit unions, prevent them etc. - here you can check the Last Week Tonight on union busting in states: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk8dUXRpoy8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk8dUXRpoy8 (the numbers are just for illustration, google them, they are public) Musk fights against one union. With 100.000 members. That union is in federation with 10 other unions with 100.000 members and federations are joining into confederations. Even first federations presents a formidable force, from political perspective (number of votes on state elections), to pure money and people power. You cant win, this is now, for unions and federations of unions, cultural fight. Initial union is no longer important and even if they would want to stop, they cant. If he will be poking long enough whole EU will fight him, from politicians that cant afford to lose votes from unions members and on top of that, do you think that German car industry is happy about him on EU soil? They would gladly cover wages for anyone striking. If ETUC joins (largest EU trade union), he will be against 45 million workers and 41 EU states, and additional 10 union federations, probably bringing together numbers of 100 million workers, 1/5 of EU population without counting smaller unions. There is no politician that would want to lose their member votes and absolutely no EU capitalist that would be stupid enough to fight them even in worse nightmare. The backlash will be so huge all over EU that he wont sell even a free sample of Tesla car except to the greatest "individualists/fanboys" and they will have car windows broken on daily basis as quislings. That's why never before something like this happened. As no one would be stupid enough to tease them. If I would be him, I would pull back when second union was in play and reach silent agreement that wouldn't come to the news. Now, with 20 unions in protest? With two countries involved and potential for whole EU? That's why I am saying, that he just didn't understand what is he fighting against. My honest advice. Stop. Now. Dont wait.
- vt85 3y ago[dead]
- yardstick 3y agoSo, what’s the solution for Elon? Spin all the Tesla Sweden workers off from any Tesla branded company and have no real employees on the ground? Would that work or are Tesla’s too hard to service by third parties? Outside of maintenance, what else does Tesla need people for in Sweden? Sales all done online?
- calamari4065 3y agoRegardless of your opinion on this, Musk's reaction should be pretty entertaining
- 0xDEF 3y agoThis entire shitshow is Musk's reaction. Most foreign companies know how to operate in Scandinavia without getting into fights with our unions.
- 0xDEF 3y agoNorway, Denmark, and Sweden are combined Tesla's 3rd biggest market after the US and China. Why did Elon pick this fight? Most American companies know how to operate here without getting into fights with unions.
- Dah00n 3y ago>Why did Elon pick this fight? In Elon's world, a world with Unions is a world with a feudal system where the Unions are the lords and poor owners like Elon are vassals and fiefs (his words, not mine).