7 ms·

And these companies wonder why so many continue to pirate. Pirated copies do not get erased due to the whims of the copyright owner.

by pwg 3y ago

ranting-moth 3y ago
Gosh, but you wouldn't download a car even if you could, would you?
- Loughla 3y ago
  Once metal 3d printing is affordable in the home, I'm absolutely downloading a car.
  - gosub100 3y ago
    Carbon fiber might even be possible before metal, for at least the structural frame. Probably wouldn't pass a single NHTSA test, but imagine how cool it would be if you could assemble your vehicle this way, with a CAD system doing the heavy math calculations, then go to a junk yard and get your suspension, axles, motors, etc. Plug the motor into an rPi that is your (whatever they call automotive computers, ECU?). Not sure how you'd do the interior or exterior, and the SRS would never work right. But you could theoretically get most of the way there, to a dune buggy.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    downloading a car is easy. Getting it registered at the DMV is the hard part. Very easy attack vector unless this is just going to be a street racing car.
- bigbillheck 3y ago
  I might.
wilsonnb3 3y ago
What percentage of people who pirate do you think do it for ideological reasons, rather than just liking free stuff?
- chalsprhebaodu 3y ago
  Is this a tangential question? The OP suggests that there’s a utility to piracy beyond ideological reasons and just getting stuff for free. In other words, the categories you posed are not mutually exclusive.
- kermatt 3y ago
  Deletion of previously licensed content will likely entice at least a few.
- al_borland 3y ago
  People may start out doing it because it’s free, but likely keep doing it for ideological reasons after they’ve seen so many paying customers get screwed over. I’ll pay for digital music on iTunes, which is DRM free, but won’t buy movies there, as the DRM means it’s only good as long as Apple decides to keep it going. As we move from people maintaining media libraries to streaming, it seems like it’s only a matter of time before those digital copies become worthless.
  - JeremyNT 3y ago
    I can't speak for anybody else but this really resonates with me. I think there's another component though. The megacorps that provide streaming video are so far removed from the actual creators, it almost feels like the right thing to do is to avoid lining their pockets with more profit. This is a stark contrast to music, where you have small groups of people you actively want to support. Given the friction to paying for the music you want is so low and the relationship is more "personal" it just has a different feel.
    - Log_out_ 3y ago
      Would be interesting to compare a production patreon VS a distribution voluntarily payment.
  - gymbeaux 3y ago
    iTunes DRM used to be abysmal. There was a time when the music was not DRM-free. Not only that, you were limited to the number of copies of CDs you could burn your music to, and you were limited to 5 devices (computers running iTunes, iPods, et al).
phone8675309 3y ago
If purchase is not ownership then piracy is not stealing. Simple as.
- omneity 3y ago
  Fascinating perspective. I wonder if such an argumentation could stand on legal grounds.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    I doubt it. The laws are written by corporations to protect corporate interests and you may find industry sympathizers all over the place (see https://www.wired.com/2009/04/obama-taps-fift/ https://www.wired.com/2009/04/obama-taps-fift/ and https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/03/riaa-lobbyist-becomes-federal-judge-rules-on-file-sharing-cases/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/03/riaa-lobbyist-be...)
  - pdimitar 3y ago
    Your mistake is imagining that piracy gets legally persecuted for more than one in a million cases. Sure, they make an example of some poor guy every now and then and they cross their fingers hoping that this scary PR turns people away from piracy, yeah. Which is wishful thinking and they know it. 99.9999% of everyone pirating though? They are never going to be persecuted. Turns out, if you ask people to pay and can't even withhold a fair bargain from your side -- as in, don't delete stuff from people's libraries -- they stop caring about the legality of it all. Especially with the extra context that this legality is a table that's severely tilted in the favor of the vendors and is not consumer-friendly. The truth that the copyright holders don't like is this: people, even very technically illiterate people, are not as stupid so as to pay ownership but get rented goods license in return. It ain't happening. They coasted on the public's indifference for a long time but it's visible that the public's perception is changing.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      >Your mistake is imagining that piracy gets legally persecuted for more than one in a million cases. that 1 in a million tends to be the one person serving the million, though. That's why they don't waste time chasing the customers like the war on drugs. Go right after the dealer and throw the book at them. >Turns out, if you ask people to pay and can't even withhold a fair bargain from your side -- as in, don't delete stuff from people's libraries -- they stop caring about the legality of it all. Good thing most people still pay in that case. The other part of that metaphor is that 999,999 people may pirate, but 5m or so are still making that product profitable. anti-piracy isnt just about making pirates relent, but to shut down future pirates in later products. >They coasted on the public's indifference for a long time but it's visible that the public's perception is changing. could have fooled me. If we're being realistic, I doubt this will affect more than 10k people. How many people really used a play station store to buy a digital movie? And remember that PS shut down their movies side 2.5 years ago.
Aurornis 3y ago
I suppose I’d have sympathy if someone previously purchased content, lost it due to this action, and then pirated a copy to continue being able to watch it. I don’t have much sympathy for people who see these headlines and use it as a blanket justification to pirate anything and everything.
- dotancohen 3y ago
  I don't pirate, but I would understand the position of acquiring any object - physical or digital - preferably from the place that won't try to take it back later. Pirated files do not carry the risks that purchased files carry. Risks that range from the files being deleted later, to data breaches exposing PII.
- notatoad 3y ago
  that's okay, the pirates don't need your sympathy. Our TV library didn't just get deleted. i really don't try to justify my piracy much anymore. i like free shit and it's easy. but things like this really make it hard to feel guilty.
- autoexec 3y ago
  You're much better off getting a copy of everything you buy digitally before some company remotes into your devices and steals your legally purchased media. You might find certain content much more difficult to find if you wait.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- Brian_K_White 3y ago
  I don't even pirate and I do sympathise and excuse completely. It's perfectly rational to me to decide to avoid getting burned in the first place, and actually a bit less rational to knowingly allow it, then wait for it to happen, and only then do something about it.
  - 3y ago
nomel 3y ago
I've never experienced in the last 20 years of purchasing digital media. You can't claim it's common. I pirate when I literally can't give anyone my money, or after something like this happens. Before is just trying to justify not compensating the creators. I’ve seen so many studios go under, that I loved. I think supporting them is important, or we’ll end up with media made for the masses, that do pay. edit: there be pirates in these waters! edit: please include the third and fourth sentence in your comprehension of the above, before responding.
- JodieBenitez 3y ago
  > You can't claim it's common. cough kindle... cough
  - nomel 3y ago
    Are you aware of any cases where they didn't refund [1]? [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18am...
    - stbenjam 3y ago
      What good is that? If I buy a book or a movie I want to own it forever not until the company decides to take it back regardless of giving a refund…
    - mvdtnz 3y ago
      I don't think that's the point. If the industry is going to regularly make me go through incessant cycles of purchasing, getting refunded, rebuying (for the same price?) then I'm going to pirate the content. What an absolutely absurd expectation.
      - johnnyanmac 3y ago
        I thought the point was ownership and how flimsy ownership lead to Piracy. Not a personal rant on how your bad customer service experience justifies your decision to pirate. I don't care if people "steal" from billion dollar corporations. But let's not mince words and pretend it's some Robin Hood act of altruism. The companies already took that piracy into account on their budget book anyway; they won't change their ways over this. That whole Gabe Newell quote about "piracy is a service issue" goes both ways. Piracy isn't always convinent and plenty of people don't wanna set up plex servers and search torrents and organize their library to get "the best experience". They just want to turn on device and play/watch/read seemlessly

And these companies wonder why so many continue to pirate. Pirated copies do not get erased due to the whims of the copyright owner.

by pwg 3y ago

And these companies wonder why so many continue to pirate. Pirated copies do not get erased due to the whims of the copyright owner.

ranting-moth 3y ago

Gosh, but you wouldn't download a car even if you could, would you?

Loughla 3y ago
Once metal 3d printing is affordable in the home, I'm absolutely downloading a car.
- gosub100 3y ago
  Carbon fiber might even be possible before metal, for at least the structural frame. Probably wouldn't pass a single NHTSA test, but imagine how cool it would be if you could assemble your vehicle this way, with a CAD system doing the heavy math calculations, then go to a junk yard and get your suspension, axles, motors, etc. Plug the motor into an rPi that is your (whatever they call automotive computers, ECU?). Not sure how you'd do the interior or exterior, and the SRS would never work right. But you could theoretically get most of the way there, to a dune buggy.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  downloading a car is easy. Getting it registered at the DMV is the hard part. Very easy attack vector unless this is just going to be a street racing car.
bigbillheck 3y ago
I might.

wilsonnb3 3y ago

What percentage of people who pirate do you think do it for ideological reasons, rather than just liking free stuff?

chalsprhebaodu 3y ago
Is this a tangential question? The OP suggests that there’s a utility to piracy beyond ideological reasons and just getting stuff for free. In other words, the categories you posed are not mutually exclusive.
kermatt 3y ago
Deletion of previously licensed content will likely entice at least a few.
al_borland 3y ago
People may start out doing it because it’s free, but likely keep doing it for ideological reasons after they’ve seen so many paying customers get screwed over. I’ll pay for digital music on iTunes, which is DRM free, but won’t buy movies there, as the DRM means it’s only good as long as Apple decides to keep it going. As we move from people maintaining media libraries to streaming, it seems like it’s only a matter of time before those digital copies become worthless.
- JeremyNT 3y ago
  I can't speak for anybody else but this really resonates with me. I think there's another component though. The megacorps that provide streaming video are so far removed from the actual creators, it almost feels like the right thing to do is to avoid lining their pockets with more profit. This is a stark contrast to music, where you have small groups of people you actively want to support. Given the friction to paying for the music you want is so low and the relationship is more "personal" it just has a different feel.
  - Log_out_ 3y ago
    Would be interesting to compare a production patreon VS a distribution voluntarily payment.
- gymbeaux 3y ago
  iTunes DRM used to be abysmal. There was a time when the music was not DRM-free. Not only that, you were limited to the number of copies of CDs you could burn your music to, and you were limited to 5 devices (computers running iTunes, iPods, et al).

phone8675309 3y ago

If purchase is not ownership then piracy is not stealing. Simple as.

omneity 3y ago
Fascinating perspective. I wonder if such an argumentation could stand on legal grounds.
- autoexec 3y ago
  I doubt it. The laws are written by corporations to protect corporate interests and you may find industry sympathizers all over the place (see https://www.wired.com/2009/04/obama-taps-fift/ https://www.wired.com/2009/04/obama-taps-fift/ and https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/03/riaa-lobbyist-becomes-federal-judge-rules-on-file-sharing-cases/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2011/03/riaa-lobbyist-be...)
- pdimitar 3y ago
  Your mistake is imagining that piracy gets legally persecuted for more than one in a million cases. Sure, they make an example of some poor guy every now and then and they cross their fingers hoping that this scary PR turns people away from piracy, yeah. Which is wishful thinking and they know it. 99.9999% of everyone pirating though? They are never going to be persecuted. Turns out, if you ask people to pay and can't even withhold a fair bargain from your side -- as in, don't delete stuff from people's libraries -- they stop caring about the legality of it all. Especially with the extra context that this legality is a table that's severely tilted in the favor of the vendors and is not consumer-friendly. The truth that the copyright holders don't like is this: people, even very technically illiterate people, are not as stupid so as to pay ownership but get rented goods license in return. It ain't happening. They coasted on the public's indifference for a long time but it's visible that the public's perception is changing.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    >Your mistake is imagining that piracy gets legally persecuted for more than one in a million cases. that 1 in a million tends to be the one person serving the million, though. That's why they don't waste time chasing the customers like the war on drugs. Go right after the dealer and throw the book at them. >Turns out, if you ask people to pay and can't even withhold a fair bargain from your side -- as in, don't delete stuff from people's libraries -- they stop caring about the legality of it all. Good thing most people still pay in that case. The other part of that metaphor is that 999,999 people may pirate, but 5m or so are still making that product profitable. anti-piracy isnt just about making pirates relent, but to shut down future pirates in later products. >They coasted on the public's indifference for a long time but it's visible that the public's perception is changing. could have fooled me. If we're being realistic, I doubt this will affect more than 10k people. How many people really used a play station store to buy a digital movie? And remember that PS shut down their movies side 2.5 years ago.

Aurornis 3y ago

I suppose I’d have sympathy if someone previously purchased content, lost it due to this action, and then pirated a copy to continue being able to watch it. I don’t have much sympathy for people who see these headlines and use it as a blanket justification to pirate anything and everything.

dotancohen 3y ago
I don't pirate, but I would understand the position of acquiring any object - physical or digital - preferably from the place that won't try to take it back later. Pirated files do not carry the risks that purchased files carry. Risks that range from the files being deleted later, to data breaches exposing PII.
notatoad 3y ago
that's okay, the pirates don't need your sympathy. Our TV library didn't just get deleted. i really don't try to justify my piracy much anymore. i like free shit and it's easy. but things like this really make it hard to feel guilty.
autoexec 3y ago
You're much better off getting a copy of everything you buy digitally before some company remotes into your devices and steals your legally purchased media. You might find certain content much more difficult to find if you wait.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Brian_K_White 3y ago
I don't even pirate and I do sympathise and excuse completely. It's perfectly rational to me to decide to avoid getting burned in the first place, and actually a bit less rational to knowingly allow it, then wait for it to happen, and only then do something about it.
- 3y ago

nomel 3y ago

I've never experienced in the last 20 years of purchasing digital media. You can't claim it's common. I pirate when I literally can't give anyone my money, or after something like this happens. Before is just trying to justify not compensating the creators. I’ve seen so many studios go under, that I loved. I think supporting them is important, or we’ll end up with media made for the masses, that do pay. edit: there be pirates in these waters! edit: please include the third and fourth sentence in your comprehension of the above, before responding.

JodieBenitez 3y ago
> You can't claim it's common. cough kindle... cough
- nomel 3y ago
  Are you aware of any cases where they didn't refund [1]? [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18am...
  - stbenjam 3y ago
    What good is that? If I buy a book or a movie I want to own it forever not until the company decides to take it back regardless of giving a refund…
  - mvdtnz 3y ago
    I don't think that's the point. If the industry is going to regularly make me go through incessant cycles of purchasing, getting refunded, rebuying (for the same price?) then I'm going to pirate the content. What an absolutely absurd expectation.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      I thought the point was ownership and how flimsy ownership lead to Piracy. Not a personal rant on how your bad customer service experience justifies your decision to pirate. I don't care if people "steal" from billion dollar corporations. But let's not mince words and pretend it's some Robin Hood act of altruism. The companies already took that piracy into account on their budget book anyway; they won't change their ways over this. That whole Gabe Newell quote about "piracy is a service issue" goes both ways. Piracy isn't always convinent and plenty of people don't wanna set up plex servers and search torrents and organize their library to get "the best experience". They just want to turn on device and play/watch/read seemlessly