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Yea this is a good point. If justice is executed by systems, rather than people (the end result from this scenario), we have lost the ability to challenge the p

Yea this is a good point. If justice is executed by systems, rather than people (the end result from this scenario), we have lost the ability to challenge the process or the people involved in so many ways. It will make challenging how the law is executed almost impossible because there will be no person there to hold responsible.

bonyt 3y ago
I think that’s a good reason to question whether this would be due process. Why do we have due process? One key reason is that it gives people the opportunity to be heard. One could argue that being heard by an AI is no different from being heard by a human, just more efficient. But why do people want the opportunity to be heard? It’s partly the obvious, to have a chance to defend oneself against unjust exercises of power, and of course against simple error. But it’s also so that one can feel heard and not powerless. If the exercise of justice requires either brutal force or broad consent, giving people the feeling of being heard and able to defend themselves encourages broad consent. Being heard by an AI then has a brutal defect, it doesn’t make people feel heard. A big part of this may come from the idea that an AI cannot be held accountable if it is wrong or if it is acting unfairly. Justice, then, becomes a force of nature. I think we like to pretend justice is a force of nature anyway, but it’s really not. It’s man-made.
- zbyte64 3y ago
  "it doesn't make people feel heard" isn't a real emotion, it includes a judgement about the AI. According to "Nonviolent Communication" p235; "unheard" speaks towards the feelings "sad, hostile, frustrated" and the needs "understanding" & "consideration". Everyone agrees AI would be more efficient, but people are concerned that the AI will not be able to make contextual considerations based on a shared understanding of what it's like to live a human life.
  - bonyt 3y ago
    That's true! I suspect it will be difficult to convince people that an AI can, as you suggest, make contextual considerations based on a shared understanding of what it's like to live a human life.
- fn-mote 3y ago
  > Being heard by an AI then has a brutal defect, it doesn’t make people feel heard. This is a hypothesis. I would say that the consumers of now-unsexed "AI" sex-chat-bots (Replika) felt differently. So there are actually people who feel heard talking to an AI. Who knows, if it gets good enough maybe more of us would feel that way.
tempsy 3y ago
It's not that "justice is executed by systems", it's that possible crimes will be flagged by AI systems for humans to then review. eg AI will analyze stock trades for the SEC and surface likely insider trading. Pretty sure they already use tools like Palantir to do exactly this, it's just that advanced AI will supercharge this even further.
- pixl97 3y ago
  >, it's that possible crimes will be flagged by AI systems for humans to then review. Eh, this is problematic for a number of reasons that need addressed when adding any component that can increase the workload for said humans. This will cause people to take shortcuts that commonly lead to groups that are less able to represent and defend themselves legally taking the brunt of the prosecutions.

bonyt 3y ago

I think that’s a good reason to question whether this would be due process. Why do we have due process? One key reason is that it gives people the opportunity to be heard. One could argue that being heard by an AI is no different from being heard by a human, just more efficient. But why do people want the opportunity to be heard? It’s partly the obvious, to have a chance to defend oneself against unjust exercises of power, and of course against simple error. But it’s also so that one can feel heard and not powerless. If the exercise of justice requires either brutal force or broad consent, giving people the feeling of being heard and able to defend themselves encourages broad consent. Being heard by an AI then has a brutal defect, it doesn’t make people feel heard. A big part of this may come from the idea that an AI cannot be held accountable if it is wrong or if it is acting unfairly. Justice, then, becomes a force of nature. I think we like to pretend justice is a force of nature anyway, but it’s really not. It’s man-made.

zbyte64 3y ago
"it doesn't make people feel heard" isn't a real emotion, it includes a judgement about the AI. According to "Nonviolent Communication" p235; "unheard" speaks towards the feelings "sad, hostile, frustrated" and the needs "understanding" & "consideration". Everyone agrees AI would be more efficient, but people are concerned that the AI will not be able to make contextual considerations based on a shared understanding of what it's like to live a human life.
- bonyt 3y ago
  That's true! I suspect it will be difficult to convince people that an AI can, as you suggest, make contextual considerations based on a shared understanding of what it's like to live a human life.
fn-mote 3y ago
> Being heard by an AI then has a brutal defect, it doesn’t make people feel heard. This is a hypothesis. I would say that the consumers of now-unsexed "AI" sex-chat-bots (Replika) felt differently. So there are actually people who feel heard talking to an AI. Who knows, if it gets good enough maybe more of us would feel that way.

tempsy 3y ago

It's not that "justice is executed by systems", it's that possible crimes will be flagged by AI systems for humans to then review. eg AI will analyze stock trades for the SEC and surface likely insider trading. Pretty sure they already use tools like Palantir to do exactly this, it's just that advanced AI will supercharge this even further.

pixl97 3y ago
>, it's that possible crimes will be flagged by AI systems for humans to then review. Eh, this is problematic for a number of reasons that need addressed when adding any component that can increase the workload for said humans. This will cause people to take shortcuts that commonly lead to groups that are less able to represent and defend themselves legally taking the brunt of the prosecutions.