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Frankly world travel has made me happier to live where I am. I think the Americans also deserve some slack for lack of international travel. I really think its

Frankly world travel has made me happier to live where I am. I think the Americans also deserve some slack for lack of international travel. I really think its out of touch. The rest of the world is far away and its not cheap to travel. $1500 isnt going to pay for many nights in a hotel either. Its a lot to ask for your average person, and very difficult if you have a family. Of course this is less true for your typical hacker news reader who has a good salary, lives in a large city (cheaper flights) and is less likely to have a family (younger and lower birth rates on top of that). Compare 3 or 4 international flight tickets to enough gas for 8 hours which will get you to fairly different climate and culture and its a no brainer.

tropicalbeach 3y ago
Same, that is the one thing traveling did for me. After seeing and living in different countries i just have a new found appreciation and calmness to where from now. It’s like something i can’t describe but i just feel so comfortable and don't take things for granted anymore. You spend enough time in other countries and you realize how frustrating just simple daily things can be. There is really nowhere in the world like America.
lmm 3y ago
Not flying is one thing, but so many US-Americans are scared of going into an actually different culture - somewhere where they speak a different language and watch different TV. A lot of people - not everyone, but a lot - could easily reach somewhere like that on that 8 hour road trip, but they won't, and they'll all try and talk about how it's "oh there's so much variety in the US I don't need to" which is just such a transparent lie.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  > somewhere where they speak a different language and watch different TV It is possible to get a little taste of this, gratis, merely by surfing YouTube in languages (and especially scripts) different from one's own.
- houseatrielah 3y ago
  American workers barely get any vacation and they probably don't want to burn what little they have on flight time. Mexico is a very popular and that's a different culture and language.
  - ggreer 3y ago
    The concept of Americans being overworked and underpaid is simply incorrect. US PPP-adjusted median disposable income is $46,600/year. Only Luxembourg has higher amounts of disposable income. The average American works 1,765 hours per year, the same as New Zealand. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income#Median_equivalent_adult_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_c... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_a...
    - justworkout 3y ago
      Disposable income is income minus taxes. That money drops fast when you factor in America's extremely high rent, the fact most Americans need a car+insurance+gas, many pay for their own health care, and other various fees. Plus people who do have some savings are often paranoid and save it because they know car trouble or one trip to the doctor will financially ruin them. Flat numerical values alone don't tell the full story. It's like assuming Irish are all rich because of their colossal GDP--and not considering that it's due to companies shuffling money around.
      - ggreer 3y ago
        Average health insurance cost in the US is $5,250 per year, which would put disposable income just below Norway. The median American would need an extra $15,000 in expenses each year to have less spending money than the median German. To get down to UK or Italy levels of disposable income, the median American would need an extra $20,000/year in expenses. Cars, housing, and health insurance aren't that expensive, especially for the median American. Typical Americans really are wealthier than typical people in other developed countries. As you said, they own cars (which tend to be bigger and more expensive than typical cars elsewhere). They also tend to have bigger houses with more amenities (air conditioning, dishwasher, clothes washer/dryer, kitchen island, etc). Some may consider these uses of wealth to be gauche or indicative of something unhealthy about American way of life, but that doesn't change the fact that they are uses of wealth.
- devilbunny 3y ago
  > which is just such a transparent lie Let's give it a generous read, though. Your life will be more interesting, in all likelihood, if you travel a lot (I can see a few narrow exceptions, but not the point). However. If you don't leave the US, you are limited to one absolutely huge country that has pretty much every kind of subtropical to alpine climate, landscape, etc., that you can imagine. You don't need a passport to pick up and go whenever you like, and - and this really mattered in the immediate post-COVID world - they can't keep you from coming back home. I took my first ever trip to Hawaii right after they opened back up. It wasn't my first choice of destination - it's a long way from me, it's very expensive once you're there, even compared to the Caribbean - but since it's part of the US, I couldn't get stuck there the way I could in Mexico or the Caribbean. A lot of those resorts, especially in purpose-built tourist areas like Cancun or Cabo, were offering free accomodation if you failed your COVID test and had to wait out a quarantine. I'm sure it wasn't going to be the same room you had booked for your stay, but they were desperate to get the money flowing back in. Going to Europe or Asia is a whole other thing. Not only is the culture different, but a lot of little details that might not be apparent at first glance. For someone who's used to being self-sufficient and just figuring it out, not so scary - but if you really don't know any of the local language, it's not trivial. I'd love to go to Japan, for example, but it's a long damned way, you can't even read a lot of the signs, and Japanese addresses are... uniquely formed. I'd feel like I had wasted a lot of money if I just went there and winged it, whereas in Europe I'm comfortable with (written) Spanish, Portuguese, and French, at least at the level you need to figure things out roughly. So now I need to find a guide or guides that I can hire for a week or two, pay for all their expenses as well as their salary, and at least occasionally navigate a sensible but immense transit system with all sorts of unusual quirks. I could probably figure something out using Google Translate and have a good time - on my own. With my wife in tow, that's just not going to happen. She has a terrible sense of direction and has needed me to walk her three or four blocks pointing out landmarks along the way just to make sure she could get to the nearest pharmacy. There's no way she would have done the kind of trips I did when young, where I landed with no cell phone, no hotel reservations, and no particular plan, all alone.
  - lmm 3y ago
    > You don't need a passport to pick up and go whenever you like, and - and this really mattered in the immediate post-COVID world - they can't keep you from coming back home. If you're a US citizen you can't be denied entry to the US; if you were going to another continent thne theoretically you could worry about a scenario where they ground all flights (even though they didn't do that at the height of Covid), but even post-Covid it's pretty implausible that they'd fully close the border with Canada or Mexico (and I believe you don't even need a passport?). > I'd love to go to Japan, for example, but it's a long damned way, you can't even read a lot of the signs, and Japanese addresses are... uniquely formed. I'd feel like I had wasted a lot of money if I just went there and winged it...So now I need to find a guide or guides that I can hire for a week or two, pay for all their expenses as well as their salary, This mentality is just utterly bizarre to me. > She has a terrible sense of direction and has needed me to walk her three or four blocks pointing out landmarks along the way just to make sure she could get to the nearest pharmacy. There's no way she would have done the kind of trips I did when young, where I landed with no cell phone, no hotel reservations, and no particular plan, all alone. You're talking like this is some innate property rather than lack of effort and practice.
jltsiren 3y ago
I've never understood why Americans keep insisting that travel is expensive. Of course it can be expensive if you choose to make it expensive, but it doesn't have to be. When I was a kid in Finland in the 80s and 90s, families often took vacations in the Mediterranean and the Canary Islands. It was affordable enough even to many lower middle class families. Those were not particularly close destinations. The distances were comparable to Americans flying to the Caribbean. Cultural habits are probably the real reason. Finns travel internationally because Finns travel internationally. Americans do it less often because Americans do it less often.
- returningfory2 3y ago
  Are Finnish families flying to the Mediterranean and the Canary Islands for culture or for a beach vacation? I'm guessing the latter. And to replicate this, Americans don't need to leave the US - they can fly to south Florida any time of year, and a bunch of other places like California during the summer. Americans travel a bunch, and I'm not convinced they travel shorter distances than Europeans. It's just because the country's so big, it's not international.
  - jltsiren 3y ago
    Everyone has their own reasons, but most people are pretty curious. If you go to a faraway place and have the free time, you are probably going to spend at least a few days exploring what's out there.
justworkout 3y ago
I left America a decade ago and, luckily, the country I ended up in--the first time I ever went outside the US even--turned out to be much better than anywhere I lived in the US. A lot of my life anxiety vanished the moment I walked off the plane and I immediately knew I'd arrived in the place I was meant to be. Despite struggles involving learning the language, cultural differences, and lifestyle changes, the stress was and is miniscule compared to the day to day in the US. I've traveled a lot since then. A lot of the countries I've visited were other places I'd considered moving, but I immediately knew they weren't for me. They reassured me that I really did find the perfect place to call my home. I've also found some places that I had zero expectations for that were almost as comfortable as where I live now. But generally, no matter where I go, I feel better about the home I've made for myself. Traveling is (mostly) fun, but I'm always glad to come home.
shiroiuma 3y ago
>$1500 isnt going to pay for many nights in a hotel either. You're right: $1500 will only get you a few nights at an American hotel chain like Hilton here in Japan ($400/night at Hilton Tokyo). If you use local hotels, you could spend a month here for that much money, but Americans can't stay at non-American hotels, just like they can't go anywhere on public transit and need to rent a huge SUV to drive everywhere. It's extremely expensive for Americans to travel internationally, because they simply can't live and travel like the locals, and need to do everything like they're back in America.

tropicalbeach 3y ago

Same, that is the one thing traveling did for me. After seeing and living in different countries i just have a new found appreciation and calmness to where from now. It’s like something i can’t describe but i just feel so comfortable and don't take things for granted anymore. You spend enough time in other countries and you realize how frustrating just simple daily things can be. There is really nowhere in the world like America.

lmm 3y ago

Not flying is one thing, but so many US-Americans are scared of going into an actually different culture - somewhere where they speak a different language and watch different TV. A lot of people - not everyone, but a lot - could easily reach somewhere like that on that 8 hour road trip, but they won't, and they'll all try and talk about how it's "oh there's so much variety in the US I don't need to" which is just such a transparent lie.

082349872349872 3y ago
> somewhere where they speak a different language and watch different TV It is possible to get a little taste of this, gratis, merely by surfing YouTube in languages (and especially scripts) different from one's own.
houseatrielah 3y ago
American workers barely get any vacation and they probably don't want to burn what little they have on flight time. Mexico is a very popular and that's a different culture and language.
- ggreer 3y ago
  The concept of Americans being overworked and underpaid is simply incorrect. US PPP-adjusted median disposable income is $46,600/year. Only Luxembourg has higher amounts of disposable income. The average American works 1,765 hours per year, the same as New Zealand. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income#Median_equivalent_adult_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_c... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_annual_labor_hours https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_a...
  - justworkout 3y ago
    Disposable income is income minus taxes. That money drops fast when you factor in America's extremely high rent, the fact most Americans need a car+insurance+gas, many pay for their own health care, and other various fees. Plus people who do have some savings are often paranoid and save it because they know car trouble or one trip to the doctor will financially ruin them. Flat numerical values alone don't tell the full story. It's like assuming Irish are all rich because of their colossal GDP--and not considering that it's due to companies shuffling money around.
    - ggreer 3y ago
      Average health insurance cost in the US is $5,250 per year, which would put disposable income just below Norway. The median American would need an extra $15,000 in expenses each year to have less spending money than the median German. To get down to UK or Italy levels of disposable income, the median American would need an extra $20,000/year in expenses. Cars, housing, and health insurance aren't that expensive, especially for the median American. Typical Americans really are wealthier than typical people in other developed countries. As you said, they own cars (which tend to be bigger and more expensive than typical cars elsewhere). They also tend to have bigger houses with more amenities (air conditioning, dishwasher, clothes washer/dryer, kitchen island, etc). Some may consider these uses of wealth to be gauche or indicative of something unhealthy about American way of life, but that doesn't change the fact that they are uses of wealth.
devilbunny 3y ago
> which is just such a transparent lie Let's give it a generous read, though. Your life will be more interesting, in all likelihood, if you travel a lot (I can see a few narrow exceptions, but not the point). However. If you don't leave the US, you are limited to one absolutely huge country that has pretty much every kind of subtropical to alpine climate, landscape, etc., that you can imagine. You don't need a passport to pick up and go whenever you like, and - and this really mattered in the immediate post-COVID world - they can't keep you from coming back home. I took my first ever trip to Hawaii right after they opened back up. It wasn't my first choice of destination - it's a long way from me, it's very expensive once you're there, even compared to the Caribbean - but since it's part of the US, I couldn't get stuck there the way I could in Mexico or the Caribbean. A lot of those resorts, especially in purpose-built tourist areas like Cancun or Cabo, were offering free accomodation if you failed your COVID test and had to wait out a quarantine. I'm sure it wasn't going to be the same room you had booked for your stay, but they were desperate to get the money flowing back in. Going to Europe or Asia is a whole other thing. Not only is the culture different, but a lot of little details that might not be apparent at first glance. For someone who's used to being self-sufficient and just figuring it out, not so scary - but if you really don't know any of the local language, it's not trivial. I'd love to go to Japan, for example, but it's a long damned way, you can't even read a lot of the signs, and Japanese addresses are... uniquely formed. I'd feel like I had wasted a lot of money if I just went there and winged it, whereas in Europe I'm comfortable with (written) Spanish, Portuguese, and French, at least at the level you need to figure things out roughly. So now I need to find a guide or guides that I can hire for a week or two, pay for all their expenses as well as their salary, and at least occasionally navigate a sensible but immense transit system with all sorts of unusual quirks. I could probably figure something out using Google Translate and have a good time - on my own. With my wife in tow, that's just not going to happen. She has a terrible sense of direction and has needed me to walk her three or four blocks pointing out landmarks along the way just to make sure she could get to the nearest pharmacy. There's no way she would have done the kind of trips I did when young, where I landed with no cell phone, no hotel reservations, and no particular plan, all alone.
- lmm 3y ago
  > You don't need a passport to pick up and go whenever you like, and - and this really mattered in the immediate post-COVID world - they can't keep you from coming back home. If you're a US citizen you can't be denied entry to the US; if you were going to another continent thne theoretically you could worry about a scenario where they ground all flights (even though they didn't do that at the height of Covid), but even post-Covid it's pretty implausible that they'd fully close the border with Canada or Mexico (and I believe you don't even need a passport?). > I'd love to go to Japan, for example, but it's a long damned way, you can't even read a lot of the signs, and Japanese addresses are... uniquely formed. I'd feel like I had wasted a lot of money if I just went there and winged it...So now I need to find a guide or guides that I can hire for a week or two, pay for all their expenses as well as their salary, This mentality is just utterly bizarre to me. > She has a terrible sense of direction and has needed me to walk her three or four blocks pointing out landmarks along the way just to make sure she could get to the nearest pharmacy. There's no way she would have done the kind of trips I did when young, where I landed with no cell phone, no hotel reservations, and no particular plan, all alone. You're talking like this is some innate property rather than lack of effort and practice.

jltsiren 3y ago

I've never understood why Americans keep insisting that travel is expensive. Of course it can be expensive if you choose to make it expensive, but it doesn't have to be. When I was a kid in Finland in the 80s and 90s, families often took vacations in the Mediterranean and the Canary Islands. It was affordable enough even to many lower middle class families. Those were not particularly close destinations. The distances were comparable to Americans flying to the Caribbean. Cultural habits are probably the real reason. Finns travel internationally because Finns travel internationally. Americans do it less often because Americans do it less often.

returningfory2 3y ago
Are Finnish families flying to the Mediterranean and the Canary Islands for culture or for a beach vacation? I'm guessing the latter. And to replicate this, Americans don't need to leave the US - they can fly to south Florida any time of year, and a bunch of other places like California during the summer. Americans travel a bunch, and I'm not convinced they travel shorter distances than Europeans. It's just because the country's so big, it's not international.
- jltsiren 3y ago
  Everyone has their own reasons, but most people are pretty curious. If you go to a faraway place and have the free time, you are probably going to spend at least a few days exploring what's out there.

justworkout 3y ago

I left America a decade ago and, luckily, the country I ended up in--the first time I ever went outside the US even--turned out to be much better than anywhere I lived in the US. A lot of my life anxiety vanished the moment I walked off the plane and I immediately knew I'd arrived in the place I was meant to be. Despite struggles involving learning the language, cultural differences, and lifestyle changes, the stress was and is miniscule compared to the day to day in the US. I've traveled a lot since then. A lot of the countries I've visited were other places I'd considered moving, but I immediately knew they weren't for me. They reassured me that I really did find the perfect place to call my home. I've also found some places that I had zero expectations for that were almost as comfortable as where I live now. But generally, no matter where I go, I feel better about the home I've made for myself. Traveling is (mostly) fun, but I'm always glad to come home.

shiroiuma 3y ago

>$1500 isnt going to pay for many nights in a hotel either. You're right: $1500 will only get you a few nights at an American hotel chain like Hilton here in Japan ($400/night at Hilton Tokyo). If you use local hotels, you could spend a month here for that much money, but Americans can't stay at non-American hotels, just like they can't go anywhere on public transit and need to rent a huge SUV to drive everywhere. It's extremely expensive for Americans to travel internationally, because they simply can't live and travel like the locals, and need to do everything like they're back in America.