6 ms·

Those who can should try living in different parts of the world. It really broadens your appreciation for life and other cultures. Of course, how you feel dur

Those who can should try living in different parts of the world. It really broadens your appreciation for life and other cultures. Of course, how you feel during and after the period depends greatly on where you are and whom you meet along the way. I'm always amazed at how many people from my home country (US) I talk to who say, "oh I can't afford to go there". For less than $1500, usually, you can go to the opposite side of the world. And quite often, the living expense is lower than where you came from. The biggest challenge most people have is that they have a lot of financial and physical anchors - stuff, a house+mortgage, car(s), etc. But I can say from my experience living both types of life that a life of a small amount of stuff and near total freedom to roam is fantastic. It's a big world, and it's a shame to go through life without really experiencing much of it. Naturally there is an adjustment period in a new region, but if approached with an open mind an a bit of patience, it can surprise you and become your favorite place to be (and way of life to live). All that said, it's important to realize that what we may see in movies is typically very carefully framed. Bali is great, but depending on where you are you might experience peace and tranquility or crazy frat party atmosphere. And "The Beach" in Thailand is idyllic - if you are shooting a movie and you can get the place to yourself. Otherwise you need to travel around to find the nice (also beautiful) quiet beaches. Any movie you've seen about Amsterdam may be true, but it too has quite varying character depending on where you go, whom you're with, and what you're seeking. Korea, Japan, and Taiwan are high on my list to try next.

WOOKIE_pizza 3y ago
+1 Thank you for this. Very well said.
angarg12 3y ago
And where does Visa factor in all of this? I have lived and worked in 5 different countries in my adult life and I can attest that some countries make it much easier than others to move in (I'm looking at you USA). Visa, immigration status, taxes and such are quite a big factor for people to consider, particularly when they are more established in their lifes.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  In The World of Yesterday Stefan Zweig laments the loss (among other things) of a world (at the dawn of the last century) in which passports* and visa requirements were not yet a major thing. I guess I'm lucky that my birth country's passport offered visa-free travel to 150+ countries: https://www.henleyglobal.com/passport-index/ranking https://www.henleyglobal.com/passport-index/ranking * Zweig also mentions how in the late 1930's people whose conversation was normally on a much more intellectual plane —books, opera, art, etc.— were reduced to concrete discussions centred around rumours of which countries it was still relatively easy to get visas for.
  - adastra22 3y ago
    But visa-free travel is not the same as visa-free emigration. Very, very few countries let people from other countries just buy a house or setup shop (pretty much just the Schengen zone).
    - schoen 3y ago
      Were there actually legal restrictions on those things in many places prior to the routinization of passports and passport controls in World War I?
      - adastra22 3y ago
        No. You just got on a boat and went to some other country. No passports, no passport controls, no immigration quotas. In the US at least it goes back a little bit further than WW1, to the Chinese exclusion act in the late 1800’s.
        JoeAltmaier 3y ago
        Kind of. You weren't given many rights unless you did it right. For instance, paupers were often excluded from American cities as early as the 1700's. As for immigration quotas, early American colonies were more concerned with increasing immigration. America was big and empty. If you had money, you were welcome. About that. If you didn't have money, you became an indentured servant. Took half your life to pay it off. Not a real citizen until then. So, sure, you could come to America. But it wasn't all honey and roses. It was different, but not much better.
nonethewiser 3y ago
Frankly world travel has made me happier to live where I am. I think the Americans also deserve some slack for lack of international travel. I really think its out of touch. The rest of the world is far away and its not cheap to travel. $1500 isnt going to pay for many nights in a hotel either. Its a lot to ask for your average person, and very difficult if you have a family. Of course this is less true for your typical hacker news reader who has a good salary, lives in a large city (cheaper flights) and is less likely to have a family (younger and lower birth rates on top of that). Compare 3 or 4 international flight tickets to enough gas for 8 hours which will get you to fairly different climate and culture and its a no brainer.
- tropicalbeach 3y ago
  Same, that is the one thing traveling did for me. After seeing and living in different countries i just have a new found appreciation and calmness to where from now. It’s like something i can’t describe but i just feel so comfortable and don't take things for granted anymore. You spend enough time in other countries and you realize how frustrating just simple daily things can be. There is really nowhere in the world like America.
- lmm 3y ago
  Not flying is one thing, but so many US-Americans are scared of going into an actually different culture - somewhere where they speak a different language and watch different TV. A lot of people - not everyone, but a lot - could easily reach somewhere like that on that 8 hour road trip, but they won't, and they'll all try and talk about how it's "oh there's so much variety in the US I don't need to" which is just such a transparent lie.
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    > somewhere where they speak a different language and watch different TV It is possible to get a little taste of this, gratis, merely by surfing YouTube in languages (and especially scripts) different from one's own.
  - houseatrielah 3y ago
WheatMillington 3y ago
Do it while young. It's not really possible (practically) once you've got kids in the picture, going to school, building their own social networks.
- scarecrowbob 3y ago
  I had my kids young (I am 45 and my kids are 22 and 24)... I counseled my son to wait on having kids, as it was very difficult raising kids when I was younger. That said, I am 45, very healthy, have had success in three different professions and am looking at an amazingly free run into my 50s. It would be easier now for me to travel than when I was young, not to mention that I am much better positioned to learn from that experience than I might have when I was in my 20s. So on one hand, when you have kids it indeed doesn't look fun (or even possible for most folks) to travel or emegrate. But on the other hand, you can have kids without spending the rest of your life raising them.
082349872349872 3y ago
> Naturally there is an adjustment period ... but ... [a new region] can ... become your favorite place to be On one hand, when I immigrated, it took ~2 years to learn the language and ~5 years to feel at home in the culture. On the other hand, by "voting with my feet" I gained the benefit of not having to die waiting for the glacial pace of political progress in the Old Country. On the gripping hand, now that I'm married with a house and pets I'm very glad I had the opportunity to "see the world" (including a few ~24 hour travel legs) when I was younger and far less anchored. Edit: wow, voting with one's feet has an interesting etymology; see senatores pedarii in https://acoup.blog/2023/09/22/collections-how-to-roman-republic-part-iv-the-senate/ https://acoup.blog/2023/09/22/collections-how-to-roman-repub...
widenrun 3y ago
It's not perfect, but as an immigrant, I can usually split locals into two groups as soon as I meet them: Those who spent time overseas and those who never left. The conversations are so distinct!
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  "Oh look at my country's patriots / hunting down below / what do they know of England / who only England know?" (a misquotation of Rudyard Kipling that I've carried in my head for 30 years)
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    Lungfish probably know a lot more about water than their fully aquatic brethren.
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    Interesting to see that Bragg did a US tour in 1984; I've always heard rumours that it is difficult to get band visas there, and his lyrics are not exactly Reagan-adjacent.

WOOKIE_pizza 3y ago

+1 Thank you for this. Very well said.

angarg12 3y ago

And where does Visa factor in all of this? I have lived and worked in 5 different countries in my adult life and I can attest that some countries make it much easier than others to move in (I'm looking at you USA). Visa, immigration status, taxes and such are quite a big factor for people to consider, particularly when they are more established in their lifes.

082349872349872 3y ago
In The World of Yesterday Stefan Zweig laments the loss (among other things) of a world (at the dawn of the last century) in which passports* and visa requirements were not yet a major thing. I guess I'm lucky that my birth country's passport offered visa-free travel to 150+ countries: https://www.henleyglobal.com/passport-index/ranking https://www.henleyglobal.com/passport-index/ranking * Zweig also mentions how in the late 1930's people whose conversation was normally on a much more intellectual plane —books, opera, art, etc.— were reduced to concrete discussions centred around rumours of which countries it was still relatively easy to get visas for.
- adastra22 3y ago
  But visa-free travel is not the same as visa-free emigration. Very, very few countries let people from other countries just buy a house or setup shop (pretty much just the Schengen zone).
  - schoen 3y ago
    Were there actually legal restrictions on those things in many places prior to the routinization of passports and passport controls in World War I?
    - adastra22 3y ago
      No. You just got on a boat and went to some other country. No passports, no passport controls, no immigration quotas. In the US at least it goes back a little bit further than WW1, to the Chinese exclusion act in the late 1800’s.
      - JoeAltmaier 3y ago
        Kind of. You weren't given many rights unless you did it right. For instance, paupers were often excluded from American cities as early as the 1700's. As for immigration quotas, early American colonies were more concerned with increasing immigration. America was big and empty. If you had money, you were welcome. About that. If you didn't have money, you became an indentured servant. Took half your life to pay it off. Not a real citizen until then. So, sure, you could come to America. But it wasn't all honey and roses. It was different, but not much better.

nonethewiser 3y ago

Frankly world travel has made me happier to live where I am. I think the Americans also deserve some slack for lack of international travel. I really think its out of touch. The rest of the world is far away and its not cheap to travel. $1500 isnt going to pay for many nights in a hotel either. Its a lot to ask for your average person, and very difficult if you have a family. Of course this is less true for your typical hacker news reader who has a good salary, lives in a large city (cheaper flights) and is less likely to have a family (younger and lower birth rates on top of that). Compare 3 or 4 international flight tickets to enough gas for 8 hours which will get you to fairly different climate and culture and its a no brainer.

tropicalbeach 3y ago
Same, that is the one thing traveling did for me. After seeing and living in different countries i just have a new found appreciation and calmness to where from now. It’s like something i can’t describe but i just feel so comfortable and don't take things for granted anymore. You spend enough time in other countries and you realize how frustrating just simple daily things can be. There is really nowhere in the world like America.
lmm 3y ago
Not flying is one thing, but so many US-Americans are scared of going into an actually different culture - somewhere where they speak a different language and watch different TV. A lot of people - not everyone, but a lot - could easily reach somewhere like that on that 8 hour road trip, but they won't, and they'll all try and talk about how it's "oh there's so much variety in the US I don't need to" which is just such a transparent lie.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  > somewhere where they speak a different language and watch different TV It is possible to get a little taste of this, gratis, merely by surfing YouTube in languages (and especially scripts) different from one's own.
- houseatrielah 3y ago

WheatMillington 3y ago

Do it while young. It's not really possible (practically) once you've got kids in the picture, going to school, building their own social networks.

scarecrowbob 3y ago
I had my kids young (I am 45 and my kids are 22 and 24)... I counseled my son to wait on having kids, as it was very difficult raising kids when I was younger. That said, I am 45, very healthy, have had success in three different professions and am looking at an amazingly free run into my 50s. It would be easier now for me to travel than when I was young, not to mention that I am much better positioned to learn from that experience than I might have when I was in my 20s. So on one hand, when you have kids it indeed doesn't look fun (or even possible for most folks) to travel or emegrate. But on the other hand, you can have kids without spending the rest of your life raising them.

082349872349872 3y ago

> Naturally there is an adjustment period ... but ... [a new region] can ... become your favorite place to be On one hand, when I immigrated, it took ~2 years to learn the language and ~5 years to feel at home in the culture. On the other hand, by "voting with my feet" I gained the benefit of not having to die waiting for the glacial pace of political progress in the Old Country. On the gripping hand, now that I'm married with a house and pets I'm very glad I had the opportunity to "see the world" (including a few ~24 hour travel legs) when I was younger and far less anchored. Edit: wow, voting with one's feet has an interesting etymology; see senatores pedarii in https://acoup.blog/2023/09/22/collections-how-to-roman-republic-part-iv-the-senate/ https://acoup.blog/2023/09/22/collections-how-to-roman-repub...

widenrun 3y ago

It's not perfect, but as an immigrant, I can usually split locals into two groups as soon as I meet them: Those who spent time overseas and those who never left. The conversations are so distinct!

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
"Oh look at my country's patriots / hunting down below / what do they know of England / who only England know?" (a misquotation of Rudyard Kipling that I've carried in my head for 30 years)
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  Lungfish probably know a lot more about water than their fully aquatic brethren.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  Interesting to see that Bragg did a US tour in 1984; I've always heard rumours that it is difficult to get band visas there, and his lyrics are not exactly Reagan-adjacent.