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corporal punishment is child abuse. It does not mean children can do whatever they like. You might find it difficult to find alternatives, but better alternat
by jmcqk6 3y ago
corporal punishment is child abuse.
It does not mean children can do whatever they like.
You might find it difficult to find alternatives, but better alternatives than violence exists.
Save your children the costs of therapy as adults, and focus on real emotional health.
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- tiahura 3y agoIs there a mammal that doesn’t utilize corporal punishment to set boundaries? Does every dog / chimp / giraffe that got nipped by mom for being a brat need therapy?
- spaceribs 3y agoAre you comparing a human child with dogs, chimps and giraffes? Are you saying it's appropriate to communicate with physical violence in this context? What other human-to-human contexts are there where physical violence or the threat of physical violence is okay? I'm genuinely curious about this worldview, because I personally cannot empathize with this. It's abhorrent to me and my values.
- s1artibartfast 3y agoI would argue that basically every human context includes the possibility of physical violence, usually for sufficient transgression the boundaries of others. If you walk out your door start groping people or try to run off someone's child, you will encounter violence pretty fast.
- bagful 3y agoConsidering the behaviors children typically get spanked for, these are severe crimes. Do we have a higher standard of behavior for children?
- s1artibartfast 3y agoI don't know what scenarios you are imagining but I think standard should be lower for children than adults, and the punishment less severe, but that doesn't preclude any violence.
- spaceribs 3y agoThose examples are not "every human context" and they don't guarantee violence, they're extrajudicial. Are you saying spanking a child is extrajudicial? a vigilante assault?
- s1artibartfast 3y agoevery human activity is in relation to possible violence. It holds relevance to basically every aspect of human life. It enables the status quo, and has the potential to disrupt it. You couldnt make a post on HN if it werent for violence, or the threat of it. you have a computer to type on because if someone were to take it, they would risk beating or death. someone built the computer because threat of violence makes them work for a living instead of taking what they want. sometimes you can be minding your own business at a desert rave and violence comes for you anyways. im saying all order, justice, and authority is based on violence. the only difference between an extrajudicial vigilante and a sanctioned enforcer, is that the enforcer is on the side generally considered more threating. If you are sufficiently transgressive, violence is always a possible consequence, for children and adults. it is a simple fact of life.
- tiahura 3y agoI think your response captures it in a nutshell. Dog’s, chimp’s and giraffe’s primary concern is addressing the problematic behavior. Modern parenting’s primary concern is with congratulating themselves for their enlightened values.
- spaceribs 3y agoAs opposed to archaic parenting being about what exactly?
- lo_zamoyski 3y agoThat's a bit of a naturalistic fallacy. At the same time, I think demonizing corporal punishment categorically is a mistake rooted in a false understanding of human nature. I see no problem caning violent criminals, for example.
- s1artibartfast 3y agoWhat if the violent criminal is a child?
- Dylan16807 3y agoNips are not intended to cause a meaningful amount of pain. Also we let/cause lots of things to happen to animals that would likely need therapy if they were humans, so this comparison really doesn't work.
- nox100 3y agodo you have any repoed studies that show kids who were spanked as kids (not beaten) needed therapy as adults? AFAICT, all the parents I know that don't punish their kids have the worst kids with the most problems. I'm not saying you should spank your kids. I'm only questioning whether it actually causes any problems. I was spanked, my sister was spanked. All my cousins etc. None of us have any issues. We love our parents and loved that they loved us enough to punish us when we were bad.
- lo_zamoyski 3y ago"Child abuse" is a fuzzier term than many seem to acknowledge, subject to passing conventions and fads. This isn't to say there aren't obvious examples of child abuse (beating your kids, sexual abuse, gaslighting, or all sorts of emotional and psychological manipulation or whatever), but today, giving an incorrigibly disobedient child throwing an interminable tantrum a swat on the tush to shake them out of it gets CPS involved, but teaching strange ideologies approved by the state is fine (in fact, refusing to teach them is now abuse). Even worse, grotesque "medical" procedures and treatments against which that swat pales in comparison. Generally speaking, corporal punishment as such is not abuse, either. We've just become very sentimental, operating with a flawed understanding of human nature. It shouldn't be used lightly, but it shouldn't be demonized categorically.
- verall 3y ago> giving an incorrigibly disobedient child throwing an interminable tantrum a swat on the tush to shake them out of it gets CPS involved It really doesn't. > Even worse, grotesque "medical" procedures and treatments against which that swat pales in comparison. Ahh, I see what you've got going on here...
- LambdaComplex 3y agoDo you normally solve interpersonal conflicts in your life with physical violence? If the answer is no: why do you think it's appropriate to do so when dealing with children? (If the answer is yes, then consider anger management classes, I guess)