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lozenge 3y ago
"They do something, she says something they don't respect, they continue, she gives up." And what do you want her to do? Stop the lesson until the student respects her? Remove the student from the classroom?
- talldatethrow 3y ago
  One, students that don't listen used to be removed. So, potential totally yes. Two, I expect her to put a lot of personal effort into becoming at expert in motivation, behavior management, discipline for kids. I expect her to at least read ONE book about this. She complains for 2+ years about this that I've known her. I recommend books, she gets insulted and explains why it's not relevant. IMO a teacher being paid $90k a year for 7 hours a day of work, 10 months a year, should be working hard to improve. But instead it's just a cushy job that no one gets fired from no matter how average (or below) they are. Ps, I have never seen her take work home once in 2 years. So don't say the hours are long. Tldr; I'd like her to do whatever other teachers that have better control of their classrooms do. Unless you're going to tell me there's zero variation in that amongst teachers.
  - starttoaster 3y ago
    > I have never seen her take work home once in 2 years. So don't say the hours are long. What does she teach? One of my best friends is a foreign language teacher that leaves home for work around 6AM and is never back home until around 7-8PM. Partially because they have to coach for sporting events because the paycheck for just teaching is ridiculously low; less than $50k/yr last I asked. Fairly middle class area in a suburb of Chicago, by the way. But yes, if what you've said is halfway accurate, it sounds like her and her coworkers are fairly underqualified and/or under-driven.
    - talldatethrow 3y ago
      She's at a public school, and she's a 6th grade teacher. I can't say any more because it's already an almost doxable situation. That sucks your hard working teacher is only making $50k. They should move to the San Ramon area and sit around teaching the kids of middle management of SV.
  - Glyptodon 3y ago
    Teachers don't seem to get trained on behaviors the way you'd might expect. It always surprises me how school psychs seem to have kids teachers think are intractable improving in thirty minutes just to have it wasted the second they're back in the regular classroom with someone who actively self-sabotages. That said, school folks I know value credentials and authority toooons so recommending books without being "certified" somehow and having it eye rolled doesn't shock me.
  - bquinlan 3y ago
    > IMO a teacher being paid $90k a year for 7 hours a day of work, > 10 months a year, should be working hard to improve. I don't disagree that she should work to improve, but you are using $90K as if it were a lot of money. According to census data [1], the median household income in San Ramon is $173,519/year and the median rent is $2,557/month. In San Ramon, you can get paid $65,000/year as an assistant manager at Starbucks without getting a 4 year degree plus teaching credentials. Plus, how is she earning so much? The San Ramon teacher salary schedule is public: [2] [1] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/sanramoncitycalifornia/INC110221 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/sanramoncitycal... [2] https://www.srvusd.net/documents/Employment/Employment-Resources/Salary-Schedules/2023-24%20Salary%20Schedules/2023-24-CRED-Before-Negotiations.pdf https://www.srvusd.net/documents/Employment/Employment-Resou...
    - talldatethrow 3y ago
      Did you just show me a chart where over 1/3 of the numbers are around or above $90k, and then ask me how she could be earning that number?
      - gamblor956 3y ago
        Yes, but that 1/3rd is all high school teachers with multiple certifications or teachers who have 20+ years of teaching experience. Based on what you've said about your soon-to-be-ex girlfriend, she isn't either of those things.
  - gamblor956 3y ago
    IMO a teacher being paid $90k a year for 7 hours a day of work, 10 months a year, should be working hard to improve. Teacher salaries for San Ramon (and California generally) are publicly accessible (by band, and for some counties like San Ramon by name), so I doubt very much your soon-to-be-ex girlfriend is making $90k as a sixth grade teacher. She'd have to be fairly old and well-established as a teacher, or have multiple graduate-level credentials in multiple subjects (in which case she wouldn't be teaching 6th grade). That would be out-of-band, especially considering what you claim to be extremely subpart performance on her part. Indeed, it sounds like you're making this up to try and claim that teachers are overpaid and underworked. They're not, and it's especially rich coming from someone who is clearly an overpaid, underworked tech employee with enough free time this afternoon to devote all of it to commenting in this thread instead of doing valuable work.
    - talldatethrow 3y ago
      A guy above me sent a link where you can find the salaries. A long term teacher in her 30s, with masters, a few extra credentials, yada yada, will make $90k.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  basically yes, This is how it was when I attended a high performing highshool. Failure to engage got students moved to a remedial class so that they didnt drag others down. Outright disruptive behavior could escalate to expulsion.
  - jakeinspace 3y ago
    I also attended a high-performing high school. These tactics don’t work as well with students who aren’t filtered or trained extensively to work in a rigorous academic setting. I’ve been in some typical Philadelphia school district classrooms as well, best of luck to teachers in that environment.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      The tactics dont work in what sense? Are there students that learn better when there are no consequences and their peers are playing music in class or shouting over the teacher?
      - jakeinspace 3y ago
        I'm saying basically no teaching tactic works when the kids have shitty home lives and have a real risk of getting shot on a daily basis.
        s1artibartfast 3y ago
        Sure, then you need a means to triage and try to save who you can.
- Manuel_D 3y ago
  Give detention? Isn't that the go-to disciplinary action? For an immediate option, 15-30 seconds chewing out a misbehaving student isn't going to take up that much time. And for more serious actions, send them to the principal's office.
s1artibartfast 3y ago
>she has trouble controlling her own students because I believe they themselves have realized she's inconsistent and illogical, so anything goes. They do something, she says something they don't respect, they continue, she gives up This really shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Even 2 year old children can understand authority, power dynamics, and contests of will. For that matter, a 6 month old puppy will understand the same. I pretty strongly disagree with the rest of what you said about state curriculum.
- talldatethrow 3y ago
  What part? That it exists as stated? Or do you believe that every single teacher in California should be deciding how to teach what verbs are, or how dividing works, in their own way however they choose? Is that really better than finding the best explanation, worksheets, and using that? Because right now there's a classroom in California being taught the worst possible way how to divide, out of all the other classrooms in California. Why? Because why not, freedom!
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    First, I object to the idea Every teacher gets to decide what they teach. There is a very prescriptive list of what the curriculum must contain, and it is assessed by standardize tests. Second, teachers aren't fungible robots. They are humans with personalities, interests, and passions. Education works best when teachers are engaged. I think you underestimate the value provided by flexibility. you might be able to reduce variation through standardization, but that doesnt mean you improve the mean. My very best teachers went off script, teaching more valuable information, like a 5th grade teacher that decided to teach business, html, and the scientific method. Last, it isn't exactly anarchy. Many subjects can be taught from texts, which are organized along standardized approaches.
    - tick_tock_tick 3y ago
      3/4 of teacher believe in "learning styles" which we figured out was bunk science pretty much the instant it came out. It sucks that we'll probably crush the great teacher but forcing so much standardization but the simple fact is most teachers can't be trusted to actually make good decisions or teach well.
ksenzee 3y ago
> People will think poorly that I’m talking down a romantic partner Well, yes. Relationships don’t do well when one of the partners has this much contempt for the other. There’s a difference between knowing in your own mind she’s not the best at her job, and calling her a “ditzy” “illogical” “girl” in public.
- talldatethrow 3y ago
  I don't call her that in public.
  - ksenzee 3y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38524596 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38524596 is a publicly accessible URL. That’s what I meant. You’re assuming it doesn’t matter because she’s not smart enough to find it and recognize herself.
    - talldatethrow 3y ago
      Lol you're talking about having respect for someone I assume, but then you assume there's 'intelligence' in finding a random link in the world? Let's say she was a damn genius. Do you expect her to have Google alerts setup for non official spellings of her school districts name? Is a genius supposed to be checking my browser history on my phone? How smart would she have to be to find what I wrote?
      - tivert 3y ago
        >>>>> People will think poorly that I’m talking down a romantic partner >>>> Well, yes. Relationships don’t do well when one of the partners has this much contempt for the other. There’s a difference between knowing in your own mind she’s not the best at her job, and calling her a “ditzy” “illogical” “girl” in public. >>> I don't call her that in public. >> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38524596 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38524596 is a publicly accessible URL. That’s what I meant. You’re assuming it doesn’t matter because she’s not smart enough to find it and recognize herself. > Lol you're talking about having respect for someone I assume, but then you assume there's 'intelligence' in finding a random link in the world? > Let's say she was a damn genius. Do you expect her to have Google alerts setup for non official spellings of her school districts name? Is a genius supposed to be checking my browser history on my phone? > How smart would she have to be to find what I wrote? How **** do you have to be to fail to realize "in public" does not mean "to her face?" This is a public forum. Everything posted here is in public. You're not as clever as you think you are.

Delete

"They do something, she says something they don't respect, they continue, she gives up." And what do you want her to do? Stop the lesson until the student respects her? Remove the student from the classroom?

talldatethrow 3y ago
One, students that don't listen used to be removed. So, potential totally yes. Two, I expect her to put a lot of personal effort into becoming at expert in motivation, behavior management, discipline for kids. I expect her to at least read ONE book about this. She complains for 2+ years about this that I've known her. I recommend books, she gets insulted and explains why it's not relevant. IMO a teacher being paid $90k a year for 7 hours a day of work, 10 months a year, should be working hard to improve. But instead it's just a cushy job that no one gets fired from no matter how average (or below) they are. Ps, I have never seen her take work home once in 2 years. So don't say the hours are long. Tldr; I'd like her to do whatever other teachers that have better control of their classrooms do. Unless you're going to tell me there's zero variation in that amongst teachers.
- starttoaster 3y ago
  > I have never seen her take work home once in 2 years. So don't say the hours are long. What does she teach? One of my best friends is a foreign language teacher that leaves home for work around 6AM and is never back home until around 7-8PM. Partially because they have to coach for sporting events because the paycheck for just teaching is ridiculously low; less than $50k/yr last I asked. Fairly middle class area in a suburb of Chicago, by the way. But yes, if what you've said is halfway accurate, it sounds like her and her coworkers are fairly underqualified and/or under-driven.
  - talldatethrow 3y ago
    She's at a public school, and she's a 6th grade teacher. I can't say any more because it's already an almost doxable situation. That sucks your hard working teacher is only making $50k. They should move to the San Ramon area and sit around teaching the kids of middle management of SV.
- Glyptodon 3y ago
  Teachers don't seem to get trained on behaviors the way you'd might expect. It always surprises me how school psychs seem to have kids teachers think are intractable improving in thirty minutes just to have it wasted the second they're back in the regular classroom with someone who actively self-sabotages. That said, school folks I know value credentials and authority toooons so recommending books without being "certified" somehow and having it eye rolled doesn't shock me.
- bquinlan 3y ago
  > IMO a teacher being paid $90k a year for 7 hours a day of work, > 10 months a year, should be working hard to improve. I don't disagree that she should work to improve, but you are using $90K as if it were a lot of money. According to census data [1], the median household income in San Ramon is $173,519/year and the median rent is $2,557/month. In San Ramon, you can get paid $65,000/year as an assistant manager at Starbucks without getting a 4 year degree plus teaching credentials. Plus, how is she earning so much? The San Ramon teacher salary schedule is public: [2] [1] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/sanramoncitycalifornia/INC110221 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/sanramoncitycal... [2] https://www.srvusd.net/documents/Employment/Employment-Resources/Salary-Schedules/2023-24%20Salary%20Schedules/2023-24-CRED-Before-Negotiations.pdf https://www.srvusd.net/documents/Employment/Employment-Resou...
  - talldatethrow 3y ago
    Did you just show me a chart where over 1/3 of the numbers are around or above $90k, and then ask me how she could be earning that number?
    - gamblor956 3y ago
      Yes, but that 1/3rd is all high school teachers with multiple certifications or teachers who have 20+ years of teaching experience. Based on what you've said about your soon-to-be-ex girlfriend, she isn't either of those things.
- gamblor956 3y ago
  IMO a teacher being paid $90k a year for 7 hours a day of work, 10 months a year, should be working hard to improve. Teacher salaries for San Ramon (and California generally) are publicly accessible (by band, and for some counties like San Ramon by name), so I doubt very much your soon-to-be-ex girlfriend is making $90k as a sixth grade teacher. She'd have to be fairly old and well-established as a teacher, or have multiple graduate-level credentials in multiple subjects (in which case she wouldn't be teaching 6th grade). That would be out-of-band, especially considering what you claim to be extremely subpart performance on her part. Indeed, it sounds like you're making this up to try and claim that teachers are overpaid and underworked. They're not, and it's especially rich coming from someone who is clearly an overpaid, underworked tech employee with enough free time this afternoon to devote all of it to commenting in this thread instead of doing valuable work.
  - talldatethrow 3y ago
    A guy above me sent a link where you can find the salaries. A long term teacher in her 30s, with masters, a few extra credentials, yada yada, will make $90k.
s1artibartfast 3y ago
basically yes, This is how it was when I attended a high performing highshool. Failure to engage got students moved to a remedial class so that they didnt drag others down. Outright disruptive behavior could escalate to expulsion.
- jakeinspace 3y ago
  I also attended a high-performing high school. These tactics don’t work as well with students who aren’t filtered or trained extensively to work in a rigorous academic setting. I’ve been in some typical Philadelphia school district classrooms as well, best of luck to teachers in that environment.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    The tactics dont work in what sense? Are there students that learn better when there are no consequences and their peers are playing music in class or shouting over the teacher?
    - jakeinspace 3y ago
      I'm saying basically no teaching tactic works when the kids have shitty home lives and have a real risk of getting shot on a daily basis.
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
        Sure, then you need a means to triage and try to save who you can.
Manuel_D 3y ago
Give detention? Isn't that the go-to disciplinary action? For an immediate option, 15-30 seconds chewing out a misbehaving student isn't going to take up that much time. And for more serious actions, send them to the principal's office.

s1artibartfast 3y ago

>she has trouble controlling her own students because I believe they themselves have realized she's inconsistent and illogical, so anything goes. They do something, she says something they don't respect, they continue, she gives up This really shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Even 2 year old children can understand authority, power dynamics, and contests of will. For that matter, a 6 month old puppy will understand the same. I pretty strongly disagree with the rest of what you said about state curriculum.

talldatethrow 3y ago
What part? That it exists as stated? Or do you believe that every single teacher in California should be deciding how to teach what verbs are, or how dividing works, in their own way however they choose? Is that really better than finding the best explanation, worksheets, and using that? Because right now there's a classroom in California being taught the worst possible way how to divide, out of all the other classrooms in California. Why? Because why not, freedom!
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  First, I object to the idea Every teacher gets to decide what they teach. There is a very prescriptive list of what the curriculum must contain, and it is assessed by standardize tests. Second, teachers aren't fungible robots. They are humans with personalities, interests, and passions. Education works best when teachers are engaged. I think you underestimate the value provided by flexibility. you might be able to reduce variation through standardization, but that doesnt mean you improve the mean. My very best teachers went off script, teaching more valuable information, like a 5th grade teacher that decided to teach business, html, and the scientific method. Last, it isn't exactly anarchy. Many subjects can be taught from texts, which are organized along standardized approaches.
  - tick_tock_tick 3y ago
    3/4 of teacher believe in "learning styles" which we figured out was bunk science pretty much the instant it came out. It sucks that we'll probably crush the great teacher but forcing so much standardization but the simple fact is most teachers can't be trusted to actually make good decisions or teach well.

ksenzee 3y ago

> People will think poorly that I’m talking down a romantic partner Well, yes. Relationships don’t do well when one of the partners has this much contempt for the other. There’s a difference between knowing in your own mind she’s not the best at her job, and calling her a “ditzy” “illogical” “girl” in public.

talldatethrow 3y ago
I don't call her that in public.
- ksenzee 3y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38524596 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38524596 is a publicly accessible URL. That’s what I meant. You’re assuming it doesn’t matter because she’s not smart enough to find it and recognize herself.
  - talldatethrow 3y ago
    Lol you're talking about having respect for someone I assume, but then you assume there's 'intelligence' in finding a random link in the world? Let's say she was a damn genius. Do you expect her to have Google alerts setup for non official spellings of her school districts name? Is a genius supposed to be checking my browser history on my phone? How smart would she have to be to find what I wrote?
    - tivert 3y ago
      >>>>> People will think poorly that I’m talking down a romantic partner >>>> Well, yes. Relationships don’t do well when one of the partners has this much contempt for the other. There’s a difference between knowing in your own mind she’s not the best at her job, and calling her a “ditzy” “illogical” “girl” in public. >>> I don't call her that in public. >> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38524596 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38524596 is a publicly accessible URL. That’s what I meant. You’re assuming it doesn’t matter because she’s not smart enough to find it and recognize herself. > Lol you're talking about having respect for someone I assume, but then you assume there's 'intelligence' in finding a random link in the world? > Let's say she was a damn genius. Do you expect her to have Google alerts setup for non official spellings of her school districts name? Is a genius supposed to be checking my browser history on my phone? > How smart would she have to be to find what I wrote? How **** do you have to be to fail to realize "in public" does not mean "to her face?" This is a public forum. Everything posted here is in public. You're not as clever as you think you are.