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Dietary fiber intake and all-cause and cause-specific mortality
- rtsil 3y agoCould it be that the kind of people who have a fiber-rich diet also have a healthier diet in general? (less meat, less processed food...)
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- hombre_fatal 3y agoI can't view the studies on SciHub (DOI not found) but this is what variable adjustment models are for. It's how we know that smokers aren't just people who don't exercise. And even when there is colinearity between variables and you're not sure how to adjust for it, then your confidence levels blow up because not literally everyone who A's also B's.
- bcardarella 3y agoSo I should stop taking my ColonBroom?
- nytesky 3y agoDon’t you mean Colon Blow? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku42Iszh9KM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku42Iszh9KM
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- TaylorAlexander 3y ago“Conclusions: This comprehensive meta-analysis provides additional evidence supporting the protective association between fiber intake and all-cause and cause-specific mortality rates.“
- smileysteve 3y agoThat's the opposite of the linked conclusion, so how did you arrive at it? > The consumption of insoluble fiber tended to be more effective than soluble fiber intake in reducing the risk of total mortality and mortality due to CVD and cancer ColonBroom = ~~In~~soluble fiber
- qclibre22 3y ago"ColonBroom’s ingredients center around improving your gut health through increased fiber intake. Psyllium husk is the main ingredient in ColonBroom. It’s a soluble fiber ... https://colonbroom.com/ingredients https://colonbroom.com/ingredients
- xhrpost 3y agoAnyone have access to the study and can say how much fiber intake was associated with these results?
- joombaga 3y agoYou can get the full paper here https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0261561423003631/pdfft?md5=1c6ffa96d7fb42b0315c569026b3dac3&pid=1-s2.0-S0261561423003631-main.pdf https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S026156142...
- csours 3y agoIt's a review study, so that would be in the underlying studies.
- xixixao 3y agoIf you haven’t, do read Outlive by Peter Attia. It discusses what we know about nutrition for certain (very little). This yet another correlation not causality result.
- cableshaft 3y agoI'm going to give it a try. Thanks for the suggestion.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- tomsto 3y agoI may be being dense, and I realise this is a meta analysis, but the abstract doesn’t explain how much fibre one needs to eat to reduce all-cause mortality by the amount they claim?
- nosefurhairdo 3y agoYou're not as dense as the paywall :)
- woleium 3y ago…higher consumption of total dietary fiber, significantly decreased the risk of all-cause mortality, CVD-related mortality, and cancer-related mortality by 23, 26 and 22 % (HR:0.77; 95%CI (0.73,0.82), HR:0.74; 95%CI (0.71,0.77) and HR:0.78; 95%CI (0.68,0.87)), respectively. The consumption of insoluble fiber tended to be more effective than soluble fiber intake in reducing the risk of total mortality and mortality due to CVD and cancer. Additionally, dietary fiber from whole grains, cereals, and vegetables was associated with a reduced risk of all-cause mortality, while dietary fiber from nuts and seeds reduced the risk of CVD-related death by 43 % (HR:0.57; 95 % CI (0.38,0.77)).
- soneca 3y agoHow much, in grams, is “higher consumption“ ?
- adamredwoods 3y agoThis is from data-mining, not a controlled experiment: >> The PubMed, SCOPUS, and Web of Science databases were searched up to October 2022
- csours 3y agoYes, it's called a review study. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3024725/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3024725/
- soperj 3y agoNot actual science then being passed as science.
- csours 3y agoScientific literacy is very important. Knowing what kinds of things you can learn from what kinds of studies is part of scientific literacy. Review studies have their place, even if they don't do their own science.
- soperj 3y agoWhat is the review study's place? Showing which things could actually use a scientific study?
- csours 3y agoYou can't do a long term all-cause mortality study double blinded. It would never pass the Review Board for one thing. It would also be very expensive. And leaving the smallest problem for last, it's literally impossible to do a long term double blind study of "lifestyle". But the real purpose of review studies is to take a lot of result sets and see if the results from one study still hold. Of course this is susceptible to garbage-in, garbage-out, so you have to be aware of that when you evaluate the results - BUT - that's also true for individual studies, even pre-registered prospective double blinded studies (The Gold Standard). And yes, when you see an effect or outcome in a population, clinical studies often follow.
- modeless 3y agoDo they investigate whether fiber supplements are as effective as fiber from food?
- Scoundreller 3y agoThey pooled it all together. But my guess is that more participants are found that have high fibre from food diets than high fibre through supplements, so the results are more representative of the former.
- crdrost 3y ago> Additionally, dietary fiber from whole grains, cereals, and vegetables was associated with a reduced risk of all-cause mortality, while dietary fiber from nuts and seeds reduced the risk of CVD-related death by 43% Importantly, as HN folks seem to like supplements, you should be aware that most fiber supplements and additives are soluble [edited -- originally said "insoluble"] fiber, while all of these sources give you a mixture of soluble and insoluble fiber. This mixture appears to be necessary to get the full benefit from fiber—Dr. Lustig describes it very memorably as saying that the insoluble fiber creates a sort of “mesh net” and the soluble fiber “plugs the holes” in that net, which combine together to coat the inside of the upper intestine (the duodenum) and reduce early absorption of calories, so that they ferment more and feed your gut microbiome. So, to supplement, supplement with snack-sized bell peppers or mixed nuts or fresh green beans or so, rather than a pill or a fiber shake. This also means that it is very hard to actually control for and isolate that this was due to the fiber rather than the lifestyle. So maybe just find produce that you find delicious and eat it for deliciousness’ sake, trusting the fiber thing to work itself out?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- 303uru 3y ago>This also means that it is very hard to actually control for and isolate that this was due to the fiber rather than the lifestyle. Always is. Is it the fiber, or is it that healthy people intake more fiber. Those foods aren't cheap if you live in a food desert either.
- mrob 3y agoOatmeal is cheap and widely available. It contains a specific soluble fiber[0] that has strong evidence for lowering blood cholesterol, and weaker evidence for various other health benefits. It's also very quick and easy to cook in a microwave oven. I eat it every day. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oat_beta-glucan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oat_beta-glucan
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- fghorow 3y agoSummarized in 3 words: Eat Your Veggies.
- deegles 3y agoI think few people would disagree with the statement, but the real questions are how many grams of veggies per day? How many different veggie types per week? How do I know if it's enough to actually reduce my risk? etc.
- qup 3y agoThose aren't the real questions. Eat your veggies.
- ajhurliman 3y agoIt seems like seeds and nuts were better
- m0llusk 3y agoThis meta-analysis seems to have the usual flaw: Most diet regimens studied are minor variations of common, standard diets. As a result this shows the result of including fiber in a standard diet. Diets that vary significantly from standard such as vegan diets or so-called paleo or carnivore diets appear in some studies to generate very different results from additional fiber ingested with a standard diet. In short, fiber is great if you are eating a standard diet, but if you ingest a particular selection foods then the observed positive effects from fiber may disappear.
- hombre_fatal 3y agoYour hypothesis sounds more like hoping that there’s some permutation of a diet where you don’t need fiber rather than some sort of limitation of the research. I’ve heard this kind of thing from carnivore charlatans on Twitter where they’re “skeptical” of the need for fiber, vitamin C, and other nutrients they don’t get on their diet. Since they can’t base this on any evidence, they say “until someone studies my exact fad diet, we can’t really know.” Until someone studies my candy diet, we can’t know if $nutrient is actually necessary for me. Maybe my candy diet magically precludes the need for it and $nutrient is only necessary for those on standard diets. For all we know, maybe candy is super healthy when it's 100% of your diet as opposed to adding it to a SAD.
- seec 3y agoYou are more likely to be on the side of wrong to be honest. Considering vegetables couldn't have been largely available in winter in the east/north part of Europe, it is unlikely that they are necessary for a healthy life (considering this part of the world is doing pretty good in many health factors). Personally, I like veggies for the taste but I really doubt they are necessary if you eat nutrient dense animal products. I think those kinds of studies have some results because people can't make the difference between real hunger and boredom hunger, so having your stomach full of useless crap (like a ruminant) makes it easier to not eat too much. But if you consider a person with physical activity the fiber would actually be counterproductive because they would prevent fast absorption of useful energy. Just ask any high-level sportsman how much he like fiber... Besides that, it is doubtful fiber does anything good...
- omginternets 3y agoOne thing stands out to me: >The consumption of insoluble fiber tended to be more effective than soluble fiber intake in reducing the risk of total mortality and mortality due to CVD and cancer. My hunch is that this is an epiphenomenon, and that what's actually happening is: 1. people eating large amounts of soluble fiber are consuming fiber supplements (e.g. psyllium husk); and, 2. people eating large amounts of insouable fiber are eating salads, etc.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- gnabgib 3y agoDocumented by Denis Burkitt[0] in his 1979 book "Don't forget fibre in your diet" (he came to be known as "fibre man" as a result) [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Parsons_Burkitt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Parsons_Burkitt
- stabbles 3y agoWhat are all the comments regarding fiber supplements about? Why would you ever take fiber supplements? How about whole-weat bread and veggies? Isn't the point of fibers that they're healthy in the sense that they can't be digested but they contribute to feeling full, so it's just about reducing caloric intake?
- xenospn 3y agoIt is so bizarre to me (a middle eastern immigrant) that people here in North America simply refuse to eat fruit and/or vegetables. I consider it a systemic failure.
- swozey 3y agoNobody, and not even remotely in the plurality you're describing "simply refuse to eat fruit and/or vegetables." Stop hanging out with unhealthy lifestyled people if that is your friend group and a concern of yours.
- tomjakubowski 3y agoSome days I can't be fucked to feed myself properly, and on those days supplements fill the gaps.
- swozey 3y agoComments like this are so absolutely cringe. I dare you, go to google and search for "opinions on green shakes reddit" and you'll have a thread of 20 people discussing the various vitamins, heavy metals, fibers, brands, gut-health, gut-feeling, etc that a green shake provides them. Then you have 3 comments from little timmy stabbles going "I don't understand why you people just don't eat bowls full of fruits and vegetables throughout the day. Monday through Sunday. It's so easy. I don't get it. You just eat fruits and vegetables that might rot in your refrigerator over 3 days how can it be so hard." Then you have 20 comments to them going, "Well, Timmy, the reason that we call supplements "supplements" is because they supplement something that for whatever reason we find ourselves not consuming enough of throughout the day. Contrary to your lived experience, your lived experience is not our lived experience and we have our reasons for not doing things exactly as you do them." Like, do you think this comment was going to set off light bulbs in our heads going "Wow, I didn't think of that. I'm going to add an entire half pound of brocolli to every meal! Thanks stabbles!!" "Why would you ever take fiber supplements.." my god. Tell that to, by far, their highest portion of consumers- the elderly.
- pnathan 3y agoPollan said once: > Eat Food, Not Too Much, Mostly Plants And as near as I can tell, that is basically the way forward, plus remembering to eat enough protein. There's a steady drip of how this additive or that replacement has a knock on negative effect. So I think at the end, making sure to make your own food, mostly plants, manage protein, with carbs for fun pretty much covers it.
- Tarrosion 3y agoAm I missing something, or are all these effect sizes just shockingly improbably large? "decreased the risk of all-cause mortality, CVD-related mortality, and cancer-related mortality by 23, 26 and 22 % " 1/4 drop in mortality just from fiber seems...like too much? Am I missing something subtle about how these mortality reduction effects are defined? Or perhaps these are conditional expectations but not causal effects? (Example: if eating fiber is negatively correlated with binge drinking alcohol, then P(death|fiber) probably << P(death|~fiber), but it's unclear a priori how much of that difference is due to alcohol)
- nosefurhairdo 3y agoI'm not a scientist and could totally be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the size of the effect depends on baseline risk. If the population has low baseline risk then a ~25% reduction in all cause mortality might only add a small amount to average lifespan.
- CaffeinatedDev 3y agoUpon reading, I think it's time to give fiber a try
- ddmf 3y agoSo I was actually healthier before I cut out peanut m&ms? (My diet is better than it was, but still garbage. I have a mix of fibres that I take daily with psyllium husk, chia seeds, and glucomannan)