4 ms·

Consider where people would use something for a long time and want to keep it relatively stable for long periods? Planes, trains, and automobiles are just a few

by mfer 3y ago

Consider where people would use something for a long time and want to keep it relatively stable for long periods? Planes, trains, and automobiles are just a few of the examples. How should over the air updates for these kinds of things work? Where are all the places that k8s is being used? If we only think of open source in datacenters we limit our thinking to just one of the many places it's used.

oneplane 3y ago
Or, they could use something that is not Kubernetes. If you are working with a system that is super static, Podman comes to mind.
samus 3y ago
You don't need Kubernetes for over-the-air updates. Kubernetes is also not suitable for that. It scales up alright, but not down. As TA expounds, there are simply too many moving parts that require expertise to operate. And that's fine. Not every software has to be able to accommodate all use cases.
- Palomides 3y ago
  they run kubernetes on fighter jets now
  - fungalcretin007 3y ago
    That is because the pressure on defense to adopt an approach and technologies that 'work' in commercial space has become dogma. Agile is a disease that fuels recipe approaches. Recently worked with a team doing edge architecture and design that has had at least 5 iterations of k8s design and vendors. Why is that? What was the solution? My opinion at the end (even though I love cloud managed k8s for commodity/insecure in the commercial space) is not to use k8s for edge and secure. Stop pretending. It's a mess and it won't get better.
  - _w1tm 3y ago
    What kind of pilot would upgrade their fighter jet cluster midair? These are made up problems.
    - vbezhenar 3y ago
      Those who use GKE Autopilot, I guess?
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    The correct solution to that problem is to delete it. Seriously, I am sick of elevators thay run Javascript, cars that run docker and self driving cars running linux. This is not good enough. Our industry is a joke.
    - lillecarl 3y ago
      If the elevator company can put in a display, run Linux, cage and electron / webbrowser I think that's a good idea. What I don't think is great is frontend people I work with having "map" explained to them because they don't know. vscode proves "js bad" wrong over and over, crap software can be written in any language.
      - sitkack 3y ago
        All of those things are so complex that faults are repaired by rebooting it. That is not a solution
        lillecarl 3y ago
        I disagree, if they can get a product with great UX through the door but has to reboot the system on a timer (maybe once it knows its empty from a PLC input) every so often I'd call it a solution. In fact, Boeing thinks rebooting an airplane is a solution to integer overflow[0]. While I do not appreciate everything being a Web app it's also a very robust platform to build upon, there aren't many projects that gets as many eyes as browsers and their components. [0]: https://www.i-programmer.info/news/149-security/8548-reboot-your-dreamliner-every-248-days-to-avoid-integer-overflow.html https://www.i-programmer.info/news/149-security/8548-reboot-...
        ClumsyPilot 3y ago
        > oeing thinks rebooting an airplane is a solution to integer overflow exactly, that's horrifying. Only seppuku would be enough of a punishment. Mechanical things need mechanical software that never fails. Now, the embedded industry has largely failed at software development and they are using softeare that was not meant for them.

by mfer 3y ago

oneplane 3y ago

Or, they could use something that is not Kubernetes. If you are working with a system that is super static, Podman comes to mind.

samus 3y ago

You don't need Kubernetes for over-the-air updates. Kubernetes is also not suitable for that. It scales up alright, but not down. As TA expounds, there are simply too many moving parts that require expertise to operate. And that's fine. Not every software has to be able to accommodate all use cases.

Palomides 3y ago
they run kubernetes on fighter jets now
- fungalcretin007 3y ago
  That is because the pressure on defense to adopt an approach and technologies that 'work' in commercial space has become dogma. Agile is a disease that fuels recipe approaches. Recently worked with a team doing edge architecture and design that has had at least 5 iterations of k8s design and vendors. Why is that? What was the solution? My opinion at the end (even though I love cloud managed k8s for commodity/insecure in the commercial space) is not to use k8s for edge and secure. Stop pretending. It's a mess and it won't get better.
- _w1tm 3y ago
  What kind of pilot would upgrade their fighter jet cluster midair? These are made up problems.
  - vbezhenar 3y ago
    Those who use GKE Autopilot, I guess?
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  The correct solution to that problem is to delete it. Seriously, I am sick of elevators thay run Javascript, cars that run docker and self driving cars running linux. This is not good enough. Our industry is a joke.
  - lillecarl 3y ago
    If the elevator company can put in a display, run Linux, cage and electron / webbrowser I think that's a good idea. What I don't think is great is frontend people I work with having "map" explained to them because they don't know. vscode proves "js bad" wrong over and over, crap software can be written in any language.
    - sitkack 3y ago
      All of those things are so complex that faults are repaired by rebooting it. That is not a solution
      - lillecarl 3y ago
        I disagree, if they can get a product with great UX through the door but has to reboot the system on a timer (maybe once it knows its empty from a PLC input) every so often I'd call it a solution. In fact, Boeing thinks rebooting an airplane is a solution to integer overflow[0]. While I do not appreciate everything being a Web app it's also a very robust platform to build upon, there aren't many projects that gets as many eyes as browsers and their components. [0]: https://www.i-programmer.info/news/149-security/8548-reboot-your-dreamliner-every-248-days-to-avoid-integer-overflow.html https://www.i-programmer.info/news/149-security/8548-reboot-...
        ClumsyPilot 3y ago
        > oeing thinks rebooting an airplane is a solution to integer overflow exactly, that's horrifying. Only seppuku would be enough of a punishment. Mechanical things need mechanical software that never fails. Now, the embedded industry has largely failed at software development and they are using softeare that was not meant for them.