6 ms·

Eurostar Amsterdam to London trains cancelled for six months

47 points by jatwork 3y ago

scaramuch 3y ago
[dead]
dr_dshiv 3y ago
Now we have to take cheap flights and feel bad…
- CaliforniaKarl 3y ago
  Or just take a non-Eurostar train to Brussels, do tourist stuff there for a day, and transfer to the Eurostar for the trip home.
- tonyedgecombe 3y ago
  You can still go by train, you just have to change at Brussels.
- jpatt 3y ago
  You can still take the train from London to Amsterdam so you only have to feel half as bad.
vavooom 3y ago
"Refurbishment of Centraal station in the Dutch capital is responsible for the closure." Seems like they just won't be able to handle the capacity of too many visitors at once with the construction. Hopefully will help set the station up for continued success in the future!
- piepiepie 3y ago
  Because Great Britain is not part of the Schengen customs zone, customs checks are required before boarding the train (this is the only train at the station with such checks). Due to the renovation, the part of the station where passport and baggage checks by customs officers were performed is to close down && turns out there's not enough space at the station to house temporary border checks, so... no train.
  - oh_sigh 3y ago
    Why do custom checks happen in NL on the ground, and not on-train? The train still goes through Belgium(at least), where no customs checks would be required
    - capableweb 3y ago
      Where on the train would you have place to perform this exactly?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - alistairSH 3y ago
        If it's just a passport check they're after, that's fairly easy (though there's always potential for somebody to duck into a restroom or similar). Customs declarations are usually made at the entry-point (at least with international air travel) - but I don't know how trains do that today (all my train travel was Schengen zone in the late 90s - just passport checks on the train, and only between some countries).
        em500 3y ago
        Passport/visa check are easy if they're all ok. But what do you do if you have (a group of) people in the train without valid passports/visas?
    - willsmith72 3y ago
      international customs checks on the train you mean? where do they do that? if i'm getting you correctly, it sounds logistically WAY harder. authorities on every train for a start, then not missing anyone, then when someone shouldn't be allowed to pass customs they're already on the train so you can't kick them off, etc.
      - AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
- jochem9 3y ago
  Part of the renovation is increasing the capacity of the Eurostar terminal. From 250 to 600 (a Eurostar train has a capacity of ~800, but the train is rarely full at Amsterdam, as passengers also board at other train stations).
em500 3y ago
This is because of customs and border controls required by the UK, which needs a large separated and secured section inside the train station. Trains to other European destinations don't need any of that. Note that this direct route with border controls in Amsterdam has only been available since 2020. Before that all the checks were done in Brussels, a situation that they will revert to during the six months of refurbishment.
sschueller 3y ago
A lot of European countries do not permit continued use of rail infrastructure while being serviced as it can be quite dangerous. [1] Switzerland is an exception to this but it results in extremely complex infrastructure projects with of course a much higher cost and more accidents. However having the infrastructure available in many cases prevents overall economic losses due to less trains etc. [1] https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/unfaelle-mit-bauzuegen-gleisbaustellen-als-gefahrenhort https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/unfaelle-mit-bauzuegen-gleis...
- jpatt 3y ago
  The line itself isn't being serviced, it is the station. UK-bound lines take up excessive space due to Brexit-related security controls, so there isn't enough space for both the security and the construction areas. They're still running the line from London to Amsterdam, which is why the line is still running and why the trains have to deadhead back.
  - martinald 3y ago
    Nothing to do with Brexit, same thing happened before. It's because the UK wasn't in Schengen and the channel tunnel regulations require security (which is a waste of time, but it's because the tunnel was inaugurated when the IRA bombing campaign was in full flow)
  - JoeSpaghettio 3y ago
    That isnt actually a brexit thing. There always was passport controls as the UK was never part of Schengen.
    - jpatt 3y ago
      I am just echoing the article: There will not be sufficient space to handle London-bound passengers at the station, given the more intensive post-Brexit formalities. Not sure about the space intensity of pre- vs post-Brexit controls to fact-check the article.
rewmie 3y ago
Such a weird news story. Amsterdam is running a campaign to literally ask British tourists to stay away from the city. https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/03/29/see-amsterdams-newest-campaign-urging-drunken-british-tourists-to-stay-away https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/03/29/see-amsterdams-ne... And yet, the Netherlands is investing in their infrastructure to literally unload an even larger volume of tourists straight from London into the very heart of Amsterdam? What gives? This sounds awfully contradictory.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- cameronh90 3y ago
  Not all international travel is party tourism. Both London and Amsterdam are important financial hubs with a lot of business travel between them, as well as popular places to visit for family-friendly reasons.
  - rewmie 3y ago
    > Not all international travel is party tourism. Tourism from Great Britain to Amsterdam is party tourism. They are increasing the volume of tourists they can cart in with a transportation mode that's even cheaper at the expense of taking longer trips. These are not business types. In fact British tourism is already synonym of booze tourism.
    - bmoxb 3y ago
      Very unfair generalisation.
      - rewmie 3y ago
        Not really a generalization. Non-booze British tourists are the exception and not the norm. The country's tourists built a reputation and holiday destinations are reacting accordingly. https://www.theguardian.com/travel/shortcuts/2017/jan/17/from-barcelona-to-malia-how-brits-on-holiday-have-made-themselves-unwelcome https://www.theguardian.com/travel/shortcuts/2017/jan/17/fro...
nyreed 3y ago
Dramatic Headline. Only the direct trains will stop. The majority of the Amsterdam to London trains already involved a change in Brussels, where they do have a large and chaotic border control area for onward travel to London. These will still be running. Eurostar wanted to change this to allow direct trains from Amsterdam around the time of the pandemic, but they always struggled for space. I suppose this construction will result in a definitive solution.
cycomanic 3y ago
I always thought the eurostar was a great demonstration how not to do it. Shitty trains (compared to e.g. the ICE, TGV or Thalys), the stupid border control/security requirements with huge queues which meant you had to be there >45min early, they even mimicked lounges from airline travel. It's like because they wanted to compete with air travel across the channel, they thought "how can we make train travel the most like air travel" adopting most of the stupid things. I half expect them to build a separate train station next, somewhere in the middle of nowhere with extra expensive public transport connections.
- bestouff 3y ago
  They already did that; in France we have e.g. "Valence TGV" which is a secondary train station far from anything, whereas Valence already has a train station in the city center. All other major cities have the same thing now.
  - orwin 3y ago
    Depends what you call major. Nantes and Rennes don't have external train stations.
- AniseAbyss 3y ago
  [dead]
- em500 3y ago
  Most of what you describe is not because they want to make train travel like air travel, but because the UK never signed the Schengen Agreement (so they need to check and stamp passports) and because of Brexit (so they need to inspect baggage for import/exports), unlike train routes between other EU/Schengen destinations.
  - cm2187 3y ago
    I didn't notice a change in baggage inspections. The inspection occurs when you leave the terminal in London, but that's not blocking, like in airports, you just walk through unless you are one of the few unlucky ones. In 15 years it only happened to me once, and that was before Brexit (they mostly search for drugs and other illegal products).
agent327 3y ago
I have traveled between Amsterdam and London by Eurostar and by plane, and I don't see why anyone would take the train, considering that it takes much longer and also costs much more. To put some numbers to this, if I were to travel to London on December 13th (a Wednesday), I'm looking at 120 euro for a five hour trip by train. Or I can fly for 76 euro and be there in an hour. Oh, and the train also requires you to be there an hour early, so you don't get the advantage of showing up late either.
- laurencerowe 3y ago
  I’ve made this trip by train in the past (changing at Brussels). It is a little slower but you need to consider the time getting to and from the airports. Unless you’re flying from London City Airport you’re only really saving an hour. The train is far more pleasant. This was pre-Brexit though when passport control was much faster and I only had to show up half an hour early for the train.
  - agent327 3y ago
    From most of the London airports you can get to central London in about an hour. Add another two hours to be early at the airport. Travel time to the airport (Schiphol) for me is 15 minutes, so totale 4h 15m. But wait! The train also requires you to be there an hour early (Eurostar actually recommends to be there 90 minutes early), and travel time to Amsterdam is 35 minutes, so the train journey now stands at 6h 35m. What aspect of the train makes it far more pleasant? Because I don't think I agree with that, not on this particular trip.
    - laurencerowe 3y ago
      I was going city centre to city centre. If I lived near the airport I’d probably have taken the plane instead. Being on the train is just a lot more relaxed in my experience. It’s much quieter and there are far fewer changes to make. Having to be there an hour or more early now obviously makes things less convenient on the train than it was for me when I lived in London 15 years ago. I got there half an hour early and it took less than 10 minutes to get through security and passport security. Last time I flew into Heathrow it took me 40 minutes to get from the plane to Heathrow underground station with no checked bags and no queue at passport control. It’s probably not as bad flying on a larger plane from London where you get a gate but I’ve spent well over 30 minutes taxiing and waiting for the bus to meet the plane at Schiphol which was about as long as my flight from Norwich.
timvanoostrom 3y ago
I believe one of the culprits in the decision making was the absence of an escalator further down the platform. It makes sense, passengers dragging their travel luggage via stairs up to the platform is sub optimal…
sys_64738 3y ago
Is this due to Boris threatening to raid the Dutch for COVID vaccines a few years back?

47 points by jatwork 3y ago

scaramuch 3y ago

[dead]

dr_dshiv 3y ago

Now we have to take cheap flights and feel bad…

CaliforniaKarl 3y ago
Or just take a non-Eurostar train to Brussels, do tourist stuff there for a day, and transfer to the Eurostar for the trip home.
tonyedgecombe 3y ago
You can still go by train, you just have to change at Brussels.
jpatt 3y ago
You can still take the train from London to Amsterdam so you only have to feel half as bad.

vavooom 3y ago

"Refurbishment of Centraal station in the Dutch capital is responsible for the closure." Seems like they just won't be able to handle the capacity of too many visitors at once with the construction. Hopefully will help set the station up for continued success in the future!

piepiepie 3y ago
Because Great Britain is not part of the Schengen customs zone, customs checks are required before boarding the train (this is the only train at the station with such checks). Due to the renovation, the part of the station where passport and baggage checks by customs officers were performed is to close down && turns out there's not enough space at the station to house temporary border checks, so... no train.
- oh_sigh 3y ago
  Why do custom checks happen in NL on the ground, and not on-train? The train still goes through Belgium(at least), where no customs checks would be required
  - capableweb 3y ago
    Where on the train would you have place to perform this exactly?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - alistairSH 3y ago
      If it's just a passport check they're after, that's fairly easy (though there's always potential for somebody to duck into a restroom or similar). Customs declarations are usually made at the entry-point (at least with international air travel) - but I don't know how trains do that today (all my train travel was Schengen zone in the late 90s - just passport checks on the train, and only between some countries).
      - em500 3y ago
        Passport/visa check are easy if they're all ok. But what do you do if you have (a group of) people in the train without valid passports/visas?
  - willsmith72 3y ago
    international customs checks on the train you mean? where do they do that? if i'm getting you correctly, it sounds logistically WAY harder. authorities on every train for a start, then not missing anyone, then when someone shouldn't be allowed to pass customs they're already on the train so you can't kick them off, etc.
    - AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
jochem9 3y ago
Part of the renovation is increasing the capacity of the Eurostar terminal. From 250 to 600 (a Eurostar train has a capacity of ~800, but the train is rarely full at Amsterdam, as passengers also board at other train stations).

em500 3y ago

This is because of customs and border controls required by the UK, which needs a large separated and secured section inside the train station. Trains to other European destinations don't need any of that. Note that this direct route with border controls in Amsterdam has only been available since 2020. Before that all the checks were done in Brussels, a situation that they will revert to during the six months of refurbishment.

sschueller 3y ago

A lot of European countries do not permit continued use of rail infrastructure while being serviced as it can be quite dangerous. [1] Switzerland is an exception to this but it results in extremely complex infrastructure projects with of course a much higher cost and more accidents. However having the infrastructure available in many cases prevents overall economic losses due to less trains etc. [1] https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/unfaelle-mit-bauzuegen-gleisbaustellen-als-gefahrenhort https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/unfaelle-mit-bauzuegen-gleis...

jpatt 3y ago
The line itself isn't being serviced, it is the station. UK-bound lines take up excessive space due to Brexit-related security controls, so there isn't enough space for both the security and the construction areas. They're still running the line from London to Amsterdam, which is why the line is still running and why the trains have to deadhead back.
- martinald 3y ago
  Nothing to do with Brexit, same thing happened before. It's because the UK wasn't in Schengen and the channel tunnel regulations require security (which is a waste of time, but it's because the tunnel was inaugurated when the IRA bombing campaign was in full flow)
- JoeSpaghettio 3y ago
  That isnt actually a brexit thing. There always was passport controls as the UK was never part of Schengen.
  - jpatt 3y ago
    I am just echoing the article: There will not be sufficient space to handle London-bound passengers at the station, given the more intensive post-Brexit formalities. Not sure about the space intensity of pre- vs post-Brexit controls to fact-check the article.

rewmie 3y ago

Such a weird news story. Amsterdam is running a campaign to literally ask British tourists to stay away from the city. https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/03/29/see-amsterdams-newest-campaign-urging-drunken-british-tourists-to-stay-away https://www.euronews.com/travel/2023/03/29/see-amsterdams-ne... And yet, the Netherlands is investing in their infrastructure to literally unload an even larger volume of tourists straight from London into the very heart of Amsterdam? What gives? This sounds awfully contradictory.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
cameronh90 3y ago
Not all international travel is party tourism. Both London and Amsterdam are important financial hubs with a lot of business travel between them, as well as popular places to visit for family-friendly reasons.
- rewmie 3y ago
  > Not all international travel is party tourism. Tourism from Great Britain to Amsterdam is party tourism. They are increasing the volume of tourists they can cart in with a transportation mode that's even cheaper at the expense of taking longer trips. These are not business types. In fact British tourism is already synonym of booze tourism.
  - bmoxb 3y ago
    Very unfair generalisation.
    - rewmie 3y ago
      Not really a generalization. Non-booze British tourists are the exception and not the norm. The country's tourists built a reputation and holiday destinations are reacting accordingly. https://www.theguardian.com/travel/shortcuts/2017/jan/17/from-barcelona-to-malia-how-brits-on-holiday-have-made-themselves-unwelcome https://www.theguardian.com/travel/shortcuts/2017/jan/17/fro...

nyreed 3y ago

Dramatic Headline. Only the direct trains will stop. The majority of the Amsterdam to London trains already involved a change in Brussels, where they do have a large and chaotic border control area for onward travel to London. These will still be running. Eurostar wanted to change this to allow direct trains from Amsterdam around the time of the pandemic, but they always struggled for space. I suppose this construction will result in a definitive solution.

cycomanic 3y ago

I always thought the eurostar was a great demonstration how not to do it. Shitty trains (compared to e.g. the ICE, TGV or Thalys), the stupid border control/security requirements with huge queues which meant you had to be there >45min early, they even mimicked lounges from airline travel. It's like because they wanted to compete with air travel across the channel, they thought "how can we make train travel the most like air travel" adopting most of the stupid things. I half expect them to build a separate train station next, somewhere in the middle of nowhere with extra expensive public transport connections.

bestouff 3y ago
They already did that; in France we have e.g. "Valence TGV" which is a secondary train station far from anything, whereas Valence already has a train station in the city center. All other major cities have the same thing now.
- orwin 3y ago
  Depends what you call major. Nantes and Rennes don't have external train stations.
AniseAbyss 3y ago
[dead]
em500 3y ago
Most of what you describe is not because they want to make train travel like air travel, but because the UK never signed the Schengen Agreement (so they need to check and stamp passports) and because of Brexit (so they need to inspect baggage for import/exports), unlike train routes between other EU/Schengen destinations.
- cm2187 3y ago
  I didn't notice a change in baggage inspections. The inspection occurs when you leave the terminal in London, but that's not blocking, like in airports, you just walk through unless you are one of the few unlucky ones. In 15 years it only happened to me once, and that was before Brexit (they mostly search for drugs and other illegal products).

agent327 3y ago

I have traveled between Amsterdam and London by Eurostar and by plane, and I don't see why anyone would take the train, considering that it takes much longer and also costs much more. To put some numbers to this, if I were to travel to London on December 13th (a Wednesday), I'm looking at 120 euro for a five hour trip by train. Or I can fly for 76 euro and be there in an hour. Oh, and the train also requires you to be there an hour early, so you don't get the advantage of showing up late either.

laurencerowe 3y ago
I’ve made this trip by train in the past (changing at Brussels). It is a little slower but you need to consider the time getting to and from the airports. Unless you’re flying from London City Airport you’re only really saving an hour. The train is far more pleasant. This was pre-Brexit though when passport control was much faster and I only had to show up half an hour early for the train.
- agent327 3y ago
  From most of the London airports you can get to central London in about an hour. Add another two hours to be early at the airport. Travel time to the airport (Schiphol) for me is 15 minutes, so totale 4h 15m. But wait! The train also requires you to be there an hour early (Eurostar actually recommends to be there 90 minutes early), and travel time to Amsterdam is 35 minutes, so the train journey now stands at 6h 35m. What aspect of the train makes it far more pleasant? Because I don't think I agree with that, not on this particular trip.
  - laurencerowe 3y ago
    I was going city centre to city centre. If I lived near the airport I’d probably have taken the plane instead. Being on the train is just a lot more relaxed in my experience. It’s much quieter and there are far fewer changes to make. Having to be there an hour or more early now obviously makes things less convenient on the train than it was for me when I lived in London 15 years ago. I got there half an hour early and it took less than 10 minutes to get through security and passport security. Last time I flew into Heathrow it took me 40 minutes to get from the plane to Heathrow underground station with no checked bags and no queue at passport control. It’s probably not as bad flying on a larger plane from London where you get a gate but I’ve spent well over 30 minutes taxiing and waiting for the bus to meet the plane at Schiphol which was about as long as my flight from Norwich.

timvanoostrom 3y ago

I believe one of the culprits in the decision making was the absence of an escalator further down the platform. It makes sense, passengers dragging their travel luggage via stairs up to the platform is sub optimal…

sys_64738 3y ago

Is this due to Boris threatening to raid the Dutch for COVID vaccines a few years back?