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When you talk to regular people (not activists and not politicians), their general attitude around climate change tends to be that nothing is really being done

When you talk to regular people (not activists and not politicians), their general attitude around climate change tends to be that nothing is really being done and that the Earth is doomed. I don't think that mindset actually encourages more activism and more action - rather, it encourages people to throw up their hands and ignore the issue (to avoid getting depressed). So I've never really understood the concerted effort to downplay or silence good news about climate change. You can't keep telling people that everything they're doing is futile yet expect them to stay motivated to keep doing it.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
People, in aggregate, are uneducated, uninformed, and unsophisticated (I mean this entirely as an observation and no way passing judgement or a sleight; "I ain't mad, it is what it is"). Pay attention to the stats and ignore the masses. As long as long policy levers are pulled hard and trajectories are locked in (electric mobility, renewables, fossil fuel consumption destruction [1]), that is what is material to the outcome. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38507695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38507695 (citations)
- whythre 3y ago
  You sound like a fucking tyrant, my guy.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Because I have to live in a rapidly changing world where the climate might be unlivable for billions of people (heat, crop failures, sea level rise, more powerful storm events) [1]? Yeah, certainly to people who have gotten their way for 100 years dumping their externalities on the planet [2], making changes might sound like tyranny when you're used to "freedom" to do whatever you want without consequences. Freedom has limits, and boundaries where one's rights end and the other's rights begin. Can't take the lizard brain out of the human I suppose. It's silly really, as besides having to switch to renewables, EVs, a bit less meat consumption and air travel [3] [4] [5] [6], not much hardship is being asked for (the most impactful thing one can do is have less or no kids, and lots of folks are opting for that already [7] [8] [9]). I have kids, and handing them a world they can survive in for the next 100 years is important to me. We might have different objectives, mental models, beliefs in climate change and the potential risk outcomes, etc. I believe in climate change and that extraordinary effort is required to mitigate it, and that is the position I operate and argue from. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38072491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38072491 (citations) [2] https://ourworldindata.org/contributed-most-global-co2 https://ourworldindata.org/contributed-most-global-co2 ("Our World in Data: Who has contributed most to global CO2 emissions?") [3] https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa7541 https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa7541 ("The climate mitigation gap: education and government recommendations miss the most effective individual actions") [4] https://www.science.org/do/10.1126/science.aan7083/full/greenhouse_drupal_copyedited-01-1644908613280.png https://www.science.org/do/10.1126/science.aan7083/full/gree... (emissions savings graphic by action) [5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37502924 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37502924 (citations) [6] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/20/beef-usda-climate-crisis-meat-consumption https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/20/beef-usd... ("High steaks society: who are the 12% of people consuming half of all beef in the US?") [7] https://www.vox.com/23971366/declining-birth-rate-fertility-babies-children https://www.vox.com/23971366/declining-birth-rate-fertility-... ("You can’t even pay people to have more kids") [8] https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rates/ https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rates/ ("Our World in Data: Fertility Rates") [9] https://ourworldindata.org/images/published/World-population-by-level-of-fertility-without-projections_850.webp https://ourworldindata.org/images/published/World-population... ("Our World In Data: World population by level of fertility over time 1950-2010") ("In God We Trust, All Others Must Bring Data")
    - jpsouth 3y ago
      I don’t have children, nor do I want them, and handing yours a world they can survive in for the next 100 years is important to me. I don’t understand what is so difficult about this.
      - toomuchtodo 3y ago
        Onward, and thank you. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.
    - andrei_says_ 3y ago
      Thank you for all the resources.
    - hotpotamus 3y ago
      As someone who's never wanted children, I'm always surprised by the apparent unconcern about the planet from those who do. I suppose I accept that we may destroy the Earth once I've finished with it (As Jim Morrison so elegantly stated, "I'm just trying to get my kicks in before the whole shithouse goes up in flames"), but I don't like it, and as a kid I had always imagined that the adults would figure it out. Having become something approximating an adult myself now, I'm beginning to doubt that we'll come up with enough solutions in time, so I suppose any good news on that front is welcome.
  - dang 3y ago
    Please don't break the site guidelines like this, no matter how wrong someone is or you feel they are. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
more_corn 3y ago
This is a known tactic by the well funded propaganda campaign waged by oil companies. If it’s too late we can’t do anything about it, so might as well do nothing.
- illiac786 3y ago
  I live in a very different world. In my world, 99%+ of people are in denial about climate change and what it means for the future of humanity. It's uncomfortable and there is no quick solution, so you just stop thinking about it. It's a very well documented psychological reaction for events out of your (immediate) control. Big oil doesn't have to do anything here, just sit back and cash in. There are also multiple comments on HN stating the opposite is true, scientists are lying about how bad the situation is for fear of people just giving up or worse, panicking. No facts around this, just wanted to mention we are far from a consensus here.
dadjoker 3y ago
No, most people are coming to realize that there is no "existential threat" from climate change (Something that has happened naturally over the history of the Earth), and that it's more about control of people than anything else.
- phero_cnstrcts 3y ago
  Yep, jumping from one catastrophe to the next - keeping people in fear and coming up with the solutions where we gradually lose freedoms .
- imtringued 3y ago
  Those very same people are surprised about an increase in migration towards colder nations and want to close off borders >Something that has happened naturally over the history of the Earth This is a meaningless statement. The earth existed in the past, therefore it is ok if something unprecedented happens.
moralestapia 3y ago
The word activism itself makes regular people cringe and leave, particularly after activists blocking major roads, throwing stuff at paintings, etc... That aside, I think one way regular people could be swayed back into caring about climate change is by showing them hard facts about the progress that has already been done, akin to what this article is doing.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

People, in aggregate, are uneducated, uninformed, and unsophisticated (I mean this entirely as an observation and no way passing judgement or a sleight; "I ain't mad, it is what it is"). Pay attention to the stats and ignore the masses. As long as long policy levers are pulled hard and trajectories are locked in (electric mobility, renewables, fossil fuel consumption destruction [1]), that is what is material to the outcome. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38507695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38507695 (citations)

whythre 3y ago
You sound like a fucking tyrant, my guy.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Because I have to live in a rapidly changing world where the climate might be unlivable for billions of people (heat, crop failures, sea level rise, more powerful storm events) [1]? Yeah, certainly to people who have gotten their way for 100 years dumping their externalities on the planet [2], making changes might sound like tyranny when you're used to "freedom" to do whatever you want without consequences. Freedom has limits, and boundaries where one's rights end and the other's rights begin. Can't take the lizard brain out of the human I suppose. It's silly really, as besides having to switch to renewables, EVs, a bit less meat consumption and air travel [3] [4] [5] [6], not much hardship is being asked for (the most impactful thing one can do is have less or no kids, and lots of folks are opting for that already [7] [8] [9]). I have kids, and handing them a world they can survive in for the next 100 years is important to me. We might have different objectives, mental models, beliefs in climate change and the potential risk outcomes, etc. I believe in climate change and that extraordinary effort is required to mitigate it, and that is the position I operate and argue from. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38072491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38072491 (citations) [2] https://ourworldindata.org/contributed-most-global-co2 https://ourworldindata.org/contributed-most-global-co2 ("Our World in Data: Who has contributed most to global CO2 emissions?") [3] https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa7541 https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa7541 ("The climate mitigation gap: education and government recommendations miss the most effective individual actions") [4] https://www.science.org/do/10.1126/science.aan7083/full/greenhouse_drupal_copyedited-01-1644908613280.png https://www.science.org/do/10.1126/science.aan7083/full/gree... (emissions savings graphic by action) [5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37502924 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37502924 (citations) [6] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/20/beef-usda-climate-crisis-meat-consumption https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/20/beef-usd... ("High steaks society: who are the 12% of people consuming half of all beef in the US?") [7] https://www.vox.com/23971366/declining-birth-rate-fertility-babies-children https://www.vox.com/23971366/declining-birth-rate-fertility-... ("You can’t even pay people to have more kids") [8] https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rates/ https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rates/ ("Our World in Data: Fertility Rates") [9] https://ourworldindata.org/images/published/World-population-by-level-of-fertility-without-projections_850.webp https://ourworldindata.org/images/published/World-population... ("Our World In Data: World population by level of fertility over time 1950-2010") ("In God We Trust, All Others Must Bring Data")
  - jpsouth 3y ago
    I don’t have children, nor do I want them, and handing yours a world they can survive in for the next 100 years is important to me. I don’t understand what is so difficult about this.
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      Onward, and thank you. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.
  - andrei_says_ 3y ago
    Thank you for all the resources.
  - hotpotamus 3y ago
    As someone who's never wanted children, I'm always surprised by the apparent unconcern about the planet from those who do. I suppose I accept that we may destroy the Earth once I've finished with it (As Jim Morrison so elegantly stated, "I'm just trying to get my kicks in before the whole shithouse goes up in flames"), but I don't like it, and as a kid I had always imagined that the adults would figure it out. Having become something approximating an adult myself now, I'm beginning to doubt that we'll come up with enough solutions in time, so I suppose any good news on that front is welcome.
- dang 3y ago
  Please don't break the site guidelines like this, no matter how wrong someone is or you feel they are. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

more_corn 3y ago

This is a known tactic by the well funded propaganda campaign waged by oil companies. If it’s too late we can’t do anything about it, so might as well do nothing.

illiac786 3y ago
I live in a very different world. In my world, 99%+ of people are in denial about climate change and what it means for the future of humanity. It's uncomfortable and there is no quick solution, so you just stop thinking about it. It's a very well documented psychological reaction for events out of your (immediate) control. Big oil doesn't have to do anything here, just sit back and cash in. There are also multiple comments on HN stating the opposite is true, scientists are lying about how bad the situation is for fear of people just giving up or worse, panicking. No facts around this, just wanted to mention we are far from a consensus here.

dadjoker 3y ago

No, most people are coming to realize that there is no "existential threat" from climate change (Something that has happened naturally over the history of the Earth), and that it's more about control of people than anything else.

phero_cnstrcts 3y ago
Yep, jumping from one catastrophe to the next - keeping people in fear and coming up with the solutions where we gradually lose freedoms .
imtringued 3y ago
Those very same people are surprised about an increase in migration towards colder nations and want to close off borders >Something that has happened naturally over the history of the Earth This is a meaningless statement. The earth existed in the past, therefore it is ok if something unprecedented happens.

moralestapia 3y ago

The word activism itself makes regular people cringe and leave, particularly after activists blocking major roads, throwing stuff at paintings, etc... That aside, I think one way regular people could be swayed back into caring about climate change is by showing them hard facts about the progress that has already been done, akin to what this article is doing.