3 ms·

@dang given the subject of this post is censoring statements made within their own community, I'm concerned about how quickly this was dropped off frontpage due

@dang given the subject of this post is censoring statements made within their own community, I'm concerned about how quickly this was dropped off frontpage due to being flagged here on HN - wondering if this is potentially an abuse of the flag button (by sockpuppets?). If not and this flagging was approved by mods for legitimate reasons please ignore this comment.

em-bee 3y ago
i might flag this because the statement is to vague to merit any public discussion outside of the people involved. all we get is speculations and accusations, that are not worthy of a discussion on hackernews, in my opinion.
- ibejoeb 3y ago
  That's true, but then contrast that to the treatment of the openai situation, where there were 1000+ comment threads devoted to vague tweets. (The "I Love You All" = Ilya thing was particularly wacky.)
- Timshel 3y ago
  I disagree, we might not be able to acertain the truth but I certainly want to know that there is some potential issues.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    true, but without details we are not able to find out anything about the nature of these issues, and therefore it is not possible to draw any conclusions that would be helpful. i am an f-droid user, and i am certainly concerned if there are issues in the community. but this post does not help to enlighten matters and i feel it will only attract vocal outsiders who have nothing substantial to contribute. this issue needs to be handled internally by the active f-droid contributors, and if they are not issuing public statements with details on what is actually going on then the rest of us should stand back. i doubt any message here is going to be helpful in resolving issues or even just learning more.
    - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
      More details are available, but were hidden by one of the remaining project members. They're still available on archive.org: https://web.archive.org/web/20231117190207/https://gitlab.com/fdroid/admin/-/issues/446 https://web.archive.org/web/20231117190207/https://gitlab.co... Issue 448 is said to be relevant as well, and similarly hidden, but isn't available on archive. The fact that a remaining project member seems to be actively hiding otherwise public discussion which would keep us more informed, seems to itself be noteworthy ("Because I felt like it" was the reason given). Indeed, that action seems to be an example of the unilateral and arbitrary exercise of power with which the former contributors are raising concerns. One wonders if a precedent can be set for getting an HN story of potential wrongdoing buried by hiding or destroying reports or evidence of it.
    - Timshel 3y ago
      The top comment now link archived issues with more context. We now know that at least 2/3 of the board had resigned. I don't know what more do you want ? As you said we won't solve anything but with such important issues I want to be informed and not hidden and flagged. Especially since the current plan for the mentionned Hans is to continue business as usual with no change ...
    - lucideer 3y ago
      > this issue needs to be handled internally What a truly odd sentiment from someone with an apparent interest in open-source community-led projects.
      - em-bee 3y ago
        on the contrary. open source (or free software) doesn't mean that every dispute has to be out in the open. there must be room to handle disputes privately, and the actions by some of the people involved here seem to show that they do not want to handle this in public. (whether that is justified or not is a different question, but again, without details we are unable to make that judgement) i find that dragging disputes into the public is often used for one side to draw support in their favor. i don't think that this is happening here, as the statements made are to vague. but in general i am not a fan of making such things public as it prevents people who are involved from opening up and sharing their concerns in the internal discussion for fear of having them made public too. we need to give people in dispute the space to resolve their issues without forcing them to face the court of public opinion.
- lucideer 3y ago
  Independently of the veracity of any statements from either side, the simultaneous resignation of 3 of the main foundation members of the primary open-source repository for the largest mobile OS seems worthy of HN.
  - aredox 3y ago
    As I feel it is missing the forest for the trees to flag this, I made a submission that should be more editorially worthy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38517576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38517576 Also note that the accusation is clear: Hans doesn't respect anything proposed by the ComCo, making it useless despite their clear mandate, personally undercutting the ComCo members with vague accusations.
- KennyBlanken 3y ago
  HN links to vague "I'm stepping down" forum/mailing list/blog posts and even tweets all the time.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    yes, and sometimes someone can post some helpful background or relevant details. that doesn't seem to be happening here.
    - Timshel 3y ago
      But someone did, maybe refresh the comments ...
      - em-bee 3y ago
        i read those. i didn't see anything helpful other than knowing that there is a second, equally vague post.
    - aredox 3y ago
      3 out of 4 ComCo members have resigned, with the clear reason being given is that Hans doesn't respect anything and bullshits his way.
    - g-b-r 3y ago
      The post has many links through which all the available information can be gleaned, and this is *definitely* a news item that plenty of people here would want to be aware of, even without knowing any further detail. You're involved in this?
- g-b-r 3y ago
  The issue is hard to understand precisely because someone tried to conceal it: https://gitlab.com/fdroid/admin/-/issues/447#note_1674904906 https://gitlab.com/fdroid/admin/-/issues/447#note_1674904906 And someone has tried the same here

em-bee 3y ago

i might flag this because the statement is to vague to merit any public discussion outside of the people involved. all we get is speculations and accusations, that are not worthy of a discussion on hackernews, in my opinion.

ibejoeb 3y ago
That's true, but then contrast that to the treatment of the openai situation, where there were 1000+ comment threads devoted to vague tweets. (The "I Love You All" = Ilya thing was particularly wacky.)
Timshel 3y ago
I disagree, we might not be able to acertain the truth but I certainly want to know that there is some potential issues.
- em-bee 3y ago
  true, but without details we are not able to find out anything about the nature of these issues, and therefore it is not possible to draw any conclusions that would be helpful. i am an f-droid user, and i am certainly concerned if there are issues in the community. but this post does not help to enlighten matters and i feel it will only attract vocal outsiders who have nothing substantial to contribute. this issue needs to be handled internally by the active f-droid contributors, and if they are not issuing public statements with details on what is actually going on then the rest of us should stand back. i doubt any message here is going to be helpful in resolving issues or even just learning more.
  - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
    More details are available, but were hidden by one of the remaining project members. They're still available on archive.org: https://web.archive.org/web/20231117190207/https://gitlab.com/fdroid/admin/-/issues/446 https://web.archive.org/web/20231117190207/https://gitlab.co... Issue 448 is said to be relevant as well, and similarly hidden, but isn't available on archive. The fact that a remaining project member seems to be actively hiding otherwise public discussion which would keep us more informed, seems to itself be noteworthy ("Because I felt like it" was the reason given). Indeed, that action seems to be an example of the unilateral and arbitrary exercise of power with which the former contributors are raising concerns. One wonders if a precedent can be set for getting an HN story of potential wrongdoing buried by hiding or destroying reports or evidence of it.
  - Timshel 3y ago
    The top comment now link archived issues with more context. We now know that at least 2/3 of the board had resigned. I don't know what more do you want ? As you said we won't solve anything but with such important issues I want to be informed and not hidden and flagged. Especially since the current plan for the mentionned Hans is to continue business as usual with no change ...
  - lucideer 3y ago
    > this issue needs to be handled internally What a truly odd sentiment from someone with an apparent interest in open-source community-led projects.
    - em-bee 3y ago
      on the contrary. open source (or free software) doesn't mean that every dispute has to be out in the open. there must be room to handle disputes privately, and the actions by some of the people involved here seem to show that they do not want to handle this in public. (whether that is justified or not is a different question, but again, without details we are unable to make that judgement) i find that dragging disputes into the public is often used for one side to draw support in their favor. i don't think that this is happening here, as the statements made are to vague. but in general i am not a fan of making such things public as it prevents people who are involved from opening up and sharing their concerns in the internal discussion for fear of having them made public too. we need to give people in dispute the space to resolve their issues without forcing them to face the court of public opinion.
lucideer 3y ago
Independently of the veracity of any statements from either side, the simultaneous resignation of 3 of the main foundation members of the primary open-source repository for the largest mobile OS seems worthy of HN.
- aredox 3y ago
  As I feel it is missing the forest for the trees to flag this, I made a submission that should be more editorially worthy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38517576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38517576 Also note that the accusation is clear: Hans doesn't respect anything proposed by the ComCo, making it useless despite their clear mandate, personally undercutting the ComCo members with vague accusations.
KennyBlanken 3y ago
HN links to vague "I'm stepping down" forum/mailing list/blog posts and even tweets all the time.
- em-bee 3y ago
  yes, and sometimes someone can post some helpful background or relevant details. that doesn't seem to be happening here.
  - Timshel 3y ago
    But someone did, maybe refresh the comments ...
    - em-bee 3y ago
      i read those. i didn't see anything helpful other than knowing that there is a second, equally vague post.
  - aredox 3y ago
    3 out of 4 ComCo members have resigned, with the clear reason being given is that Hans doesn't respect anything and bullshits his way.
  - g-b-r 3y ago
    The post has many links through which all the available information can be gleaned, and this is *definitely* a news item that plenty of people here would want to be aware of, even without knowing any further detail. You're involved in this?
g-b-r 3y ago
The issue is hard to understand precisely because someone tried to conceal it: https://gitlab.com/fdroid/admin/-/issues/447#note_1674904906 https://gitlab.com/fdroid/admin/-/issues/447#note_1674904906 And someone has tried the same here