3 ms·

I'd have called an EVSE a charger - I might be naive but what's the distinction you're trying to make?

Maxion 3y ago
The actual AC charger is in the car - it is a pretty important distinction.
Moto7451 3y ago
The name itself, Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, indicates the focus of the hardware beyond simply being a fancy plug and a contactor. Higher end EVSE will do things like load balancing a shared supply of power (ie chaining multiple Tesla EVSEs to the same 50A line), setting supply power limits depending on how much power is in use (ie the Porsche Connect Plus modulating lower current when a clothing dryer starts), and managing Car to Grid functionality (Hyundai). EVSEs also manage DC charging in commercial settings, which bypasses part of the charging hardware in some cars. My Porsche Taycan is available with multiple chargers from the factory. I have the faster AC charger unit and there is a third unit that is only sold in Europe for Type 2 chargers. The actual charger handles converting AC to DC, which is car specific and why it’s not in the EVSE.
- schiffern 3y ago
  > The name itself, Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, indicates the focus of the hardware beyond simply being a fancy plug and a contactor. Thank you, I wasn't previously aware of this distinction. So for simple units that are just "a fancy plug and contactor" (no balancing, limiting, V2G, V1G, etc), what do we call them? I know not to say "EVSE" now, but what should I use? Thanks again.
elihu 3y ago
The terminology is kind of confusing, but usually the thing called a "charger" is the part that converts AC to DC at whatever voltage the pack requires. For level 1 and 2 charging, the charger is in the car. J1772 ports are basically just fancy 110v or 220v AC plugs with some extra signalling. DC charging tends to happen at much higher power levels, and that equipment is expensive so the AC-DC converter is kept outside of the car. The car itself just has a couple contactors (i.e. high power relays) to connect the charge port directly to the battery, and a microcontroller to tell the charger how much current it can handle at what voltage.
- KennyBlanken 3y ago
  Not by the general public. The general public typically refers to the EVSE itself as a "level 2 charger." The general public does not know or care about the distinction and in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter.
  - elihu 3y ago
    And yet the technical people need accurate names to call things so they can communicate without ambiguity. I think "charging station" is the least confusing term for the fixed infrastructure part. If regular people call those "chargers" in non-technical conversation, then I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
    - gambiting 3y ago
      The thing that you use to provide your phone with electricity - do you call it an AC-DC converter, or do you call it a charger like nearly everyone on earth, even though the charger part is actually inside your phone?
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        It's funny that people don't want to call it a charger specifically because it doesn't do the AC-DC conversion, and your example of a thing people call a charger is an AC-DC converter. And depending on the sophistication of the phone, that converter outside the phone might be doing most of the work.
        gambiting 3y ago
        >>It's funny that people don't want to call it a charger specifically because it doesn't do the AC-DC conversion Well yeah, they are being silly - I don't know why that would be the distinction, even if it did AC-DC conversion it would have no idea what the battery is doing which is the entire point. >>that converter outside the phone might be doing most of the work. Maybe, but usually the circuit that controls and monitors the battery is inside the phone, not in the "charger" outside. Even battery chargers for power tools and such work this way - the circuit that controls the battery charging is actually inside the battery pack not in the base, but everyone would call the base a "charger".
myself248 3y ago
The EVSE is a glorified RCD/GFCI cord with a contactor that turns on power, so the cord is dead until that happens. It also generates a signal that tells the car how much power it's allowed to draw; the EVSE is configured at install time to know what size breaker feeds it upstream, so it tells the car not to trip that breaker, but the EVSE has no means of actually enforcing such a limit. There's some basic negotiation between the EVSE and the car, to decide when the plug is inserted and it's OK to turn on the contactor. The AC power passes straight through the EVSE, unaltered in voltage, current, or waveform. The EVSE may monitor the current to perform logging, and the EVSE is required to monitor the AC imbalance like any other RCD/GFCI does so it can open the contactor if there's a ground fault, but that's it. It's just a smart extension cord, basically. The charger is in the car, and is the component that actually converts the AC from the grid to DC for the batteries. The charger is what has all the silicon (or these days, probably gallium nitride?), and the inductors and capacitors and stuff to actually transform the power from one form to another. It changes the voltage to match whatever the battery needs at the moment. It controls its own DC output to match the battery's needs, and it limits its own AC input according to the signal from the EVSE so it doesn't trip the upstream breaker. The charger is also responsible for immediately turning itself off, reducing its input draw to zero, within a few milliseconds of someone pressing the latch of the EVSE connector handle. This indicates they're about to pull it out, and the contacts aren't designed to handle arcing, so the charger is required to drop its current _very_ quickly, allowing the contacts to be separated without creating an arc. That signal (called PP) is produced in the handle itself, there's just a tiny switch underneath the latch. The handle is technically part of the cord which is technically part of the EVSE, but the EVSE has no responsibilities related to the signal, that's all on the charger. If the SAE hadn't mandated that the EVSE perform RCD functions, it could be replaced by a literal extension cord. Many small DIY EVs do precisely that; the charge cord is the exact same one you'd use to run any appliance. It works just fine. But even small DIY EVs have a real charger too, which converts the AC from the cord to DC for the batteries. The charger plugs into the cord, but the charger is not the cord.

The actual AC charger is in the car - it is a pretty important distinction.

The name itself, Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, indicates the focus of the hardware beyond simply being a fancy plug and a contactor. Higher end EVSE will do things like load balancing a shared supply of power (ie chaining multiple Tesla EVSEs to the same 50A line), setting supply power limits depending on how much power is in use (ie the Porsche Connect Plus modulating lower current when a clothing dryer starts), and managing Car to Grid functionality (Hyundai). EVSEs also manage DC charging in commercial settings, which bypasses part of the charging hardware in some cars. My Porsche Taycan is available with multiple chargers from the factory. I have the faster AC charger unit and there is a third unit that is only sold in Europe for Type 2 chargers. The actual charger handles converting AC to DC, which is car specific and why it’s not in the EVSE.

schiffern 3y ago
> The name itself, Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, indicates the focus of the hardware beyond simply being a fancy plug and a contactor. Thank you, I wasn't previously aware of this distinction. So for simple units that are just "a fancy plug and contactor" (no balancing, limiting, V2G, V1G, etc), what do we call them? I know not to say "EVSE" now, but what should I use? Thanks again.

elihu 3y ago

The terminology is kind of confusing, but usually the thing called a "charger" is the part that converts AC to DC at whatever voltage the pack requires. For level 1 and 2 charging, the charger is in the car. J1772 ports are basically just fancy 110v or 220v AC plugs with some extra signalling. DC charging tends to happen at much higher power levels, and that equipment is expensive so the AC-DC converter is kept outside of the car. The car itself just has a couple contactors (i.e. high power relays) to connect the charge port directly to the battery, and a microcontroller to tell the charger how much current it can handle at what voltage.

KennyBlanken 3y ago
Not by the general public. The general public typically refers to the EVSE itself as a "level 2 charger." The general public does not know or care about the distinction and in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter.
- elihu 3y ago
  And yet the technical people need accurate names to call things so they can communicate without ambiguity. I think "charging station" is the least confusing term for the fixed infrastructure part. If regular people call those "chargers" in non-technical conversation, then I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
  - gambiting 3y ago
    The thing that you use to provide your phone with electricity - do you call it an AC-DC converter, or do you call it a charger like nearly everyone on earth, even though the charger part is actually inside your phone?
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      It's funny that people don't want to call it a charger specifically because it doesn't do the AC-DC conversion, and your example of a thing people call a charger is an AC-DC converter. And depending on the sophistication of the phone, that converter outside the phone might be doing most of the work.
      - gambiting 3y ago
        >>It's funny that people don't want to call it a charger specifically because it doesn't do the AC-DC conversion Well yeah, they are being silly - I don't know why that would be the distinction, even if it did AC-DC conversion it would have no idea what the battery is doing which is the entire point. >>that converter outside the phone might be doing most of the work. Maybe, but usually the circuit that controls and monitors the battery is inside the phone, not in the "charger" outside. Even battery chargers for power tools and such work this way - the circuit that controls the battery charging is actually inside the battery pack not in the base, but everyone would call the base a "charger".

myself248 3y ago

The EVSE is a glorified RCD/GFCI cord with a contactor that turns on power, so the cord is dead until that happens. It also generates a signal that tells the car how much power it's allowed to draw; the EVSE is configured at install time to know what size breaker feeds it upstream, so it tells the car not to trip that breaker, but the EVSE has no means of actually enforcing such a limit. There's some basic negotiation between the EVSE and the car, to decide when the plug is inserted and it's OK to turn on the contactor. The AC power passes straight through the EVSE, unaltered in voltage, current, or waveform. The EVSE may monitor the current to perform logging, and the EVSE is required to monitor the AC imbalance like any other RCD/GFCI does so it can open the contactor if there's a ground fault, but that's it. It's just a smart extension cord, basically. The charger is in the car, and is the component that actually converts the AC from the grid to DC for the batteries. The charger is what has all the silicon (or these days, probably gallium nitride?), and the inductors and capacitors and stuff to actually transform the power from one form to another. It changes the voltage to match whatever the battery needs at the moment. It controls its own DC output to match the battery's needs, and it limits its own AC input according to the signal from the EVSE so it doesn't trip the upstream breaker. The charger is also responsible for immediately turning itself off, reducing its input draw to zero, within a few milliseconds of someone pressing the latch of the EVSE connector handle. This indicates they're about to pull it out, and the contacts aren't designed to handle arcing, so the charger is required to drop its current _very_ quickly, allowing the contacts to be separated without creating an arc. That signal (called PP) is produced in the handle itself, there's just a tiny switch underneath the latch. The handle is technically part of the cord which is technically part of the EVSE, but the EVSE has no responsibilities related to the signal, that's all on the charger. If the SAE hadn't mandated that the EVSE perform RCD functions, it could be replaced by a literal extension cord. Many small DIY EVs do precisely that; the charge cord is the exact same one you'd use to run any appliance. It works just fine. But even small DIY EVs have a real charger too, which converts the AC from the cord to DC for the batteries. The charger plugs into the cord, but the charger is not the cord.