7 ms·

Does it? I firmly believe that most problems people have with sleep also depend on modern "way of living", that is highly Artificial. For example, lots of peo

Does it? I firmly believe that most problems people have with sleep also depend on modern "way of living", that is highly Artificial. For example, lots of people have Apnea, and Apnea is highly correlated with being obese, and being obese is normal in the Western world, but it was not 100 years ago. So it is not about being older but about being overweight, something that depends on eating healthy and exercising, that most people do not do. Another important factor is artificial lighting, again a 100 years old thing, people that have used candles know how dim they are, and people using screens in the bedroom until late, specially social media. Social Media is addictive, but you don't need to use it, people can stop using it, but they just don't want to. Also living in the city is noisy, expensive and stressful. Most people are worried about lots of things, and that makes them sleep badly.

letmevoteplease 3y ago
Also alarm clocks, caffeine, unnatural sleep schedules. This site[1] has lots of good information, with this basic (unfortunately impossible for many) recommendation: "There is only one formula for healthy and refreshing sleep: Go to sleep only when you are very tired. Not earlier. Not later. Wake up naturally without an alarm clock." [1] https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Science_of_sleep https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Science_of_sleep
- EA-3167 3y ago
  Unfortunately for me that would entail staying up until 3AM and waking up at 11AM. That might work for me, but it doesn't work for my professional or social life.
  - hermanradtke 3y ago
    It is worse. The sleep formula article says free sleep often involves 24 hour sleep sessions, which is practically impossible for most people.
  - sen 3y ago
    Yeah I had a period before I had kids and when I worked for myself where I could sleep whenever I wanted. I’d get tired around 3-4am, go to sleep about 5am, wake up around 12-1pm, and felt great every day. The most energy, motivation, and general good moods I’ve had in my life. Then kids + career = 10pm-5am sleep schedule and pretty much feel tired (struggling-to-function tired) 24/7.
    - gambiting 3y ago
      In the same cart now. Not sure how you can stay functional as a human with a 2 year old who won't sleep past 6am. Going to bed super early doesn't seem to help either. I can force myself to go to sleep before 10pm so in theory I get a full restorative 8 hours of sleep, but I don't feel anywhere near as rested as I was doing 2am-10am.
  - golergka 3y ago
    One more reason to embrace fully remote work with async communication. I’m in my top work shape at 2am, when slack is dead silent.
  - fishtacos 3y ago
    In my teenage years, I was a nocturnal primate. It worked with my work schedule (retail, 2pm start), but, as has been noted by others here, as well, that simply will not work anymore. Both due to age and due to work requirements. Social life isn't particularly impacted, but tiredness due to lack of sleep has impacted both work effectiveness and even getting work, where I showed up at interviews groggy and clearly slower in responses and ability to express what was my intent vs. what came out. Haven't figured out a balance yet, but at the very least I have an idea of what causes it, exacerbated by stress and related causalities. I think the worst aspect of it nowadays is that the cycle seems difficult to break. Thanks to this conversational reminder, I'll try to hit the hay when the body seeks it, no matter how early. Waking up is not a problem. It's the falling asleep part that has caused me to gray severely in the past 3 years, through and post pandemic. It came on so quickly and strongly, I still feel robbed.
    - throwaway2037 3y ago
      Grey hair is your main concern here? Just dye it. (I assume you are a man. Why? Most women in the developed world start dying their hair to hide grey hair in their 40s.) In East Asia, it is also very common for men to dye their hair to hide grey hair.
      - wkat4242 3y ago
        I think the OP doesn't mean the grey hair part literally but figuratively, like synonymous for worry.
        fishtacos 3y ago
        To reply to you and previous commenter, it's a combination of both. Literally, I've grayed within the past 2 years excessively (or perhaps normal by hittin 40 - it felt rather quick). The worries and stress and existential this and that (without going into details, we all swallow some bullets) clearly made a difference, and CV-19 didn't help. It's ultimately a synonym for worry - and whatever it entails. As for literally dying my hair, I did once a while ago. Never again. It felt awkward, impersonal, awkward (x2), fraudulent, and so on. It's good to feel comfotable in one one's skin, even while it whithers.
  - jedberg 3y ago
    During the early pandemic, neither of my kids had school and my wife wasn't working (and I was running my own company and set the meeting time). So we just turned off all the alarms. Went to bed when we wanted, woke up when we wanted. The kids would go to bed around 2am and wake up around 11am. My wife and I would go to bed around 3-4am and wake up at 11am. It was fantastic. Sadly modern life doesn't allow for that, as we have to take them to school at a set time and I have to meet with other people now.
    - ClimaxGravely 3y ago
      That sounds sublime. I'm currently working for a company that allows me to be fairly flexible with my hours and I've found it's been amazing for my productivity. Some days I wake up late and miss a portion of the work day but I'm able to work later and have a fresh mind for the entirety of my work time. With this routine I've found I'm managing to accomplish way more than I did in a previously more rigid environment. Currently I'm an IC so it's easier to have this kind of schedule. At past jobs when I was in more of a managerial role so this wouldn't have been as easy due to the amount of meetings with various partners and employees. This experience has been so positive it's made it so that I'm now pursuing a job/career where I can maintain this lifestyle. I loathe wasting time sitting around because I'm tired.
    - throwaway2037 3y ago
      This is a wild post. Thank you to share! Did you write any blog posts about this experience? I would be a fascinating read.
      - jedberg 3y ago
        No, I didn't think it would be that interesting. I tell the story from time to time when it's relevant. :) I mean, my post above is pretty much all there is. We basically lived on that schedule until my daughter started online kindergarten. Then we made her roll out of bed at 8:38 to be online by 8:40.
        angrais 3y ago
  - gsk22 3y ago
    It sounds like you may have delayed sleep phase disorder -- basically, a late-shifted circadian rhythm. I keep similar hours by default and was diagnosed with DSPD about 5 years ago. It explained a lot of issues in my life and was a relief to hear that I wasn't just "lazy" like all the morning people always told me! As an additional plus, if you are in the United States, sleep disorders qualify as disabilities, which means employers are generally required to make reasonable accommodations, including later working hours. I find that tech companies are generally fine with varying hours anyway, but it's a nice tool to keep in your back pocket in case you have a manager that insists on 9am meetings.
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      I'm pretty sure I have this too. In the evenings I'd always have this invigoration even when I was young. And in the morning I just can't get up. My day is always flexible at the end and never at the start. I wonder where and how to get this diagnosed though.
      - gsk22 3y ago
        Tell your doctor about your symptoms and ask them to refer you to a sleep study. They hook you up to monitors and watch you overnight. That's how I was diagnosed.
- hermanradtke 3y ago
  > only when you are very tired The sleep formula article said “truly sleepy” which, to me, is significantly different from “very tired”.
- globular-toast 3y ago
  > "There is only one formula for healthy and refreshing sleep: Go to sleep only when you are very tired. Not earlier. Not later. Wake up naturally without an alarm clock." I did that for years when I was younger. For me that meant a longer-than-24-hour day which quickly led to being completely nocturnal. Those were dark days, literally and figuratively. I can distinctly remember my first "day" without daylight. It wasn't a nice feeling. I would usually try to correct it when that happened which was like having a 12 hour jet lag.
  - tstrimple 3y ago
    Whenever I let my schedule go I usually end up in a similar situation. It almost feels like my body would prefer a 19 hour wake period with 7 hours of sleep which would keep my sleep wake cycle rotating throughout a 24 hour period. Not very conducive to working in a business setting with meetings and such.
    - intelVISA 3y ago
      I'm jealous of people who are aligned to the magic 24hr sleep cycle, for me my days feel better as 20hrs awake 10hrs asleep vs traditional 16:8.
      - ClimaxGravely 3y ago
        Absolutely. I often fantasize what a different length day might be like.
  - throwawaytemp29 3y ago
    Me too. I had a 26 hour schedule for like a month once. It seems fine til it isn’t.
  - earthling8118 3y ago
    I did this once. It was great. I still think of it and wish I could go back. Yes, it causes issues within our society. That's the only thing keeping me from it and I bemoan this on a daily basis. If we were more flexible I could thrive.
- nunez 3y ago
  That formula does not work if your cicardian rhythm is untuned, which is the case for many people. It takes lots and lots of repetition to get to the point where you can wake up without alarms at a consistent time.
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
    Do you have to wake up at the exact same time? I wake up with the alarm only if I go to bed too late, otherwise I assume I have to sleep for 10 hours, go to bed and my body naturally wakes up between 830 and 930 hours of sleep. Very resting. Also if I gwt 2 days of 9 hours, the next day usually I end up sleeping 8 and still feel rested, so it seems the body naturally adjusts
SantalBlush 3y ago
All of these other factors you've mentioned do nothing to rule out age as a factor. These things aren't mutually exclusive.
immibis 3y ago
My monitor's lowest brightness setting is almost uncomfortably bright in the dark. The same on my phone, but the lowest brightness setting is okay, but the second lowest is far too bright. Hardware designers reading this: add darker brightness settings FFS.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Yep and actual low brightness settings. Not mess with the contrast so it reduces colour depth, which is what most screens do for low brightness levels :(
- CodeLikeHell 3y ago
  If you have an iPhone, you can lower the brightness even further by going to Settings > Accessibility > Accessibility Shortcut and enabling “Reduce white point”. Then you can triple press the power button to toggle it. But I agree with your overall point. It shouldn’t be hidden under accessibility, and more devices should have lower brightness settings.
  - marc_abonce 3y ago
    I assume it's hidden to stop users from accidentally setting brightness to its true lowest and then being unable to revert the change because the screen would now be too dark for most users to see anything at all.
  - danielscrubs 3y ago
    Ive set that to guided access so my child can play with the phone. If anyone from Apple are reading this consider it a feature request to start this and guided access from the top right control panel. I need both.
- burjui 3y ago
  I use sunglasses for that.
- Izkata 3y ago
  If you have Android, I recommend https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.haxor https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.haxor
schwartzworld 3y ago
That's a very simplistic view of apnea. You don't have to be fat to experience it, and this misconception is a bit part of why it's underdiagnosed.
- BenjiWiebe 3y ago
  It is definitely highly correlated, as the commenter said.
  - neffy 3y ago
    It's correlated, but the causality may be reversed. That is to say, sleep apnea probably causes and certainly doesn't help, obesity. There is a strong relationship between not getting enough sleep, and appetite control. There are also a lot of other causes of sleep apnea, physiology being a big one, also obstructions in the nasal canal.
- behringer 3y ago
  he's clearly not talking about the people with apnea who are not overweight in that particular example...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- appplication 3y ago
  Agree. While sleep apnea risk does increase with obesity, it has a fairly high baseline. Sleep apnea is one of the most diagnosed conditions in service members separating or retiring from the military, and that is by definition not an obese group. I have sleep apnea and am one of the most fit people I know. When I was in the military, I encouraged many of my friends who sleep poorly to get a sleep test and many of them - fit and young - were surprised to learn they also had it. I would not be surprised if some significant portion of the population has it and is just unaware. At anything short of severe levels, many people would never even suspect they have it.
  - 3y ago
edmundsauto 3y ago
Another important factor is pain. Pain prevents sound sleep. My mom, who has bad rheumatoid arthritis, says that a regular strength Tylenol will knock her out. This is because it reduces her baseline pain to a point where she can rest.
- throwaway2037 3y ago
  This is a great point. I remember having my wisdom teeth removed in early university. The pain was unbearable at night. I would take pain killers... then wake up 4-6 hours later after they wore off. Waking up from pain is an incredible experience. I can still clearly remember it. And, to state the obvious: After surgery, good sleep is important for healing!
tqi 3y ago
Respectfully, "I firmly believe" followed by an assertion from a non expert passing as "facts" is a pox on our modern society.
- tempmac 3y ago
  ditto this... "100 years ago" just seem to imply a lot of missing data points (and/or anecdata with lots of mislabeled data)
- AB1725 3y ago
  The real "pox" is shutting down someone giving their opinions in good faith.
  - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
    The phrase "shutting down" here is doing a lot of work. Why don't we characterize it as "challenging" them?
    - glitchcrab 3y ago
      But they're not challenging them, are they? If they were challenging the opinions then there would need some sort of rebuttal. Instead they're essentially saying that OP worded it wrongly and therefore their points are invalid.
      - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
        Call it what you want, pushing back on someone's opinion is acceptable, fine, and should be encouraged. What we need to stop doing is making arguments that something being an opinion means it shouldn't be pushed back on. It's one thing if someone says I like broccoli better than pizza, it's another when someone makes a statement that is not about their own preferences. Many of those opinions are bad and should be challenged.
        3y ago
vGPU 3y ago
I am neither fat nor obese. In fact, I’m a former amateur bodybuilder. I have sleep apnea. It’s not so much weight as size of the neck.

letmevoteplease 3y ago

Also alarm clocks, caffeine, unnatural sleep schedules. This site[1] has lots of good information, with this basic (unfortunately impossible for many) recommendation: "There is only one formula for healthy and refreshing sleep: Go to sleep only when you are very tired. Not earlier. Not later. Wake up naturally without an alarm clock." [1] https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Science_of_sleep https://supermemo.guru/wiki/Science_of_sleep

EA-3167 3y ago
Unfortunately for me that would entail staying up until 3AM and waking up at 11AM. That might work for me, but it doesn't work for my professional or social life.
- hermanradtke 3y ago
  It is worse. The sleep formula article says free sleep often involves 24 hour sleep sessions, which is practically impossible for most people.
- sen 3y ago
  Yeah I had a period before I had kids and when I worked for myself where I could sleep whenever I wanted. I’d get tired around 3-4am, go to sleep about 5am, wake up around 12-1pm, and felt great every day. The most energy, motivation, and general good moods I’ve had in my life. Then kids + career = 10pm-5am sleep schedule and pretty much feel tired (struggling-to-function tired) 24/7.
  - gambiting 3y ago
    In the same cart now. Not sure how you can stay functional as a human with a 2 year old who won't sleep past 6am. Going to bed super early doesn't seem to help either. I can force myself to go to sleep before 10pm so in theory I get a full restorative 8 hours of sleep, but I don't feel anywhere near as rested as I was doing 2am-10am.
- golergka 3y ago
  One more reason to embrace fully remote work with async communication. I’m in my top work shape at 2am, when slack is dead silent.
- fishtacos 3y ago
  In my teenage years, I was a nocturnal primate. It worked with my work schedule (retail, 2pm start), but, as has been noted by others here, as well, that simply will not work anymore. Both due to age and due to work requirements. Social life isn't particularly impacted, but tiredness due to lack of sleep has impacted both work effectiveness and even getting work, where I showed up at interviews groggy and clearly slower in responses and ability to express what was my intent vs. what came out. Haven't figured out a balance yet, but at the very least I have an idea of what causes it, exacerbated by stress and related causalities. I think the worst aspect of it nowadays is that the cycle seems difficult to break. Thanks to this conversational reminder, I'll try to hit the hay when the body seeks it, no matter how early. Waking up is not a problem. It's the falling asleep part that has caused me to gray severely in the past 3 years, through and post pandemic. It came on so quickly and strongly, I still feel robbed.
  - throwaway2037 3y ago
    Grey hair is your main concern here? Just dye it. (I assume you are a man. Why? Most women in the developed world start dying their hair to hide grey hair in their 40s.) In East Asia, it is also very common for men to dye their hair to hide grey hair.
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      I think the OP doesn't mean the grey hair part literally but figuratively, like synonymous for worry.
      - fishtacos 3y ago
        To reply to you and previous commenter, it's a combination of both. Literally, I've grayed within the past 2 years excessively (or perhaps normal by hittin 40 - it felt rather quick). The worries and stress and existential this and that (without going into details, we all swallow some bullets) clearly made a difference, and CV-19 didn't help. It's ultimately a synonym for worry - and whatever it entails. As for literally dying my hair, I did once a while ago. Never again. It felt awkward, impersonal, awkward (x2), fraudulent, and so on. It's good to feel comfotable in one one's skin, even while it whithers.
- jedberg 3y ago
  During the early pandemic, neither of my kids had school and my wife wasn't working (and I was running my own company and set the meeting time). So we just turned off all the alarms. Went to bed when we wanted, woke up when we wanted. The kids would go to bed around 2am and wake up around 11am. My wife and I would go to bed around 3-4am and wake up at 11am. It was fantastic. Sadly modern life doesn't allow for that, as we have to take them to school at a set time and I have to meet with other people now.
  - ClimaxGravely 3y ago
    That sounds sublime. I'm currently working for a company that allows me to be fairly flexible with my hours and I've found it's been amazing for my productivity. Some days I wake up late and miss a portion of the work day but I'm able to work later and have a fresh mind for the entirety of my work time. With this routine I've found I'm managing to accomplish way more than I did in a previously more rigid environment. Currently I'm an IC so it's easier to have this kind of schedule. At past jobs when I was in more of a managerial role so this wouldn't have been as easy due to the amount of meetings with various partners and employees. This experience has been so positive it's made it so that I'm now pursuing a job/career where I can maintain this lifestyle. I loathe wasting time sitting around because I'm tired.
  - throwaway2037 3y ago
    This is a wild post. Thank you to share! Did you write any blog posts about this experience? I would be a fascinating read.
    - jedberg 3y ago
      No, I didn't think it would be that interesting. I tell the story from time to time when it's relevant. :) I mean, my post above is pretty much all there is. We basically lived on that schedule until my daughter started online kindergarten. Then we made her roll out of bed at 8:38 to be online by 8:40.
      - angrais 3y ago
- gsk22 3y ago
  It sounds like you may have delayed sleep phase disorder -- basically, a late-shifted circadian rhythm. I keep similar hours by default and was diagnosed with DSPD about 5 years ago. It explained a lot of issues in my life and was a relief to hear that I wasn't just "lazy" like all the morning people always told me! As an additional plus, if you are in the United States, sleep disorders qualify as disabilities, which means employers are generally required to make reasonable accommodations, including later working hours. I find that tech companies are generally fine with varying hours anyway, but it's a nice tool to keep in your back pocket in case you have a manager that insists on 9am meetings.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    I'm pretty sure I have this too. In the evenings I'd always have this invigoration even when I was young. And in the morning I just can't get up. My day is always flexible at the end and never at the start. I wonder where and how to get this diagnosed though.
    - gsk22 3y ago
      Tell your doctor about your symptoms and ask them to refer you to a sleep study. They hook you up to monitors and watch you overnight. That's how I was diagnosed.
hermanradtke 3y ago
> only when you are very tired The sleep formula article said “truly sleepy” which, to me, is significantly different from “very tired”.
globular-toast 3y ago
> "There is only one formula for healthy and refreshing sleep: Go to sleep only when you are very tired. Not earlier. Not later. Wake up naturally without an alarm clock." I did that for years when I was younger. For me that meant a longer-than-24-hour day which quickly led to being completely nocturnal. Those were dark days, literally and figuratively. I can distinctly remember my first "day" without daylight. It wasn't a nice feeling. I would usually try to correct it when that happened which was like having a 12 hour jet lag.
- tstrimple 3y ago
  Whenever I let my schedule go I usually end up in a similar situation. It almost feels like my body would prefer a 19 hour wake period with 7 hours of sleep which would keep my sleep wake cycle rotating throughout a 24 hour period. Not very conducive to working in a business setting with meetings and such.
  - intelVISA 3y ago
    I'm jealous of people who are aligned to the magic 24hr sleep cycle, for me my days feel better as 20hrs awake 10hrs asleep vs traditional 16:8.
    - ClimaxGravely 3y ago
      Absolutely. I often fantasize what a different length day might be like.
- throwawaytemp29 3y ago
  Me too. I had a 26 hour schedule for like a month once. It seems fine til it isn’t.
- earthling8118 3y ago
  I did this once. It was great. I still think of it and wish I could go back. Yes, it causes issues within our society. That's the only thing keeping me from it and I bemoan this on a daily basis. If we were more flexible I could thrive.
nunez 3y ago
That formula does not work if your cicardian rhythm is untuned, which is the case for many people. It takes lots and lots of repetition to get to the point where you can wake up without alarms at a consistent time.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
  Do you have to wake up at the exact same time? I wake up with the alarm only if I go to bed too late, otherwise I assume I have to sleep for 10 hours, go to bed and my body naturally wakes up between 830 and 930 hours of sleep. Very resting. Also if I gwt 2 days of 9 hours, the next day usually I end up sleeping 8 and still feel rested, so it seems the body naturally adjusts

SantalBlush 3y ago

All of these other factors you've mentioned do nothing to rule out age as a factor. These things aren't mutually exclusive.

immibis 3y ago

My monitor's lowest brightness setting is almost uncomfortably bright in the dark. The same on my phone, but the lowest brightness setting is okay, but the second lowest is far too bright. Hardware designers reading this: add darker brightness settings FFS.

wkat4242 3y ago
Yep and actual low brightness settings. Not mess with the contrast so it reduces colour depth, which is what most screens do for low brightness levels :(
CodeLikeHell 3y ago
If you have an iPhone, you can lower the brightness even further by going to Settings > Accessibility > Accessibility Shortcut and enabling “Reduce white point”. Then you can triple press the power button to toggle it. But I agree with your overall point. It shouldn’t be hidden under accessibility, and more devices should have lower brightness settings.
- marc_abonce 3y ago
  I assume it's hidden to stop users from accidentally setting brightness to its true lowest and then being unable to revert the change because the screen would now be too dark for most users to see anything at all.
- danielscrubs 3y ago
  Ive set that to guided access so my child can play with the phone. If anyone from Apple are reading this consider it a feature request to start this and guided access from the top right control panel. I need both.
burjui 3y ago
I use sunglasses for that.
Izkata 3y ago
If you have Android, I recommend https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.haxor https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.haxor

schwartzworld 3y ago

That's a very simplistic view of apnea. You don't have to be fat to experience it, and this misconception is a bit part of why it's underdiagnosed.

BenjiWiebe 3y ago
It is definitely highly correlated, as the commenter said.
- neffy 3y ago
  It's correlated, but the causality may be reversed. That is to say, sleep apnea probably causes and certainly doesn't help, obesity. There is a strong relationship between not getting enough sleep, and appetite control. There are also a lot of other causes of sleep apnea, physiology being a big one, also obstructions in the nasal canal.
behringer 3y ago
he's clearly not talking about the people with apnea who are not overweight in that particular example...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
appplication 3y ago
Agree. While sleep apnea risk does increase with obesity, it has a fairly high baseline. Sleep apnea is one of the most diagnosed conditions in service members separating or retiring from the military, and that is by definition not an obese group. I have sleep apnea and am one of the most fit people I know. When I was in the military, I encouraged many of my friends who sleep poorly to get a sleep test and many of them - fit and young - were surprised to learn they also had it. I would not be surprised if some significant portion of the population has it and is just unaware. At anything short of severe levels, many people would never even suspect they have it.
- 3y ago

edmundsauto 3y ago

Another important factor is pain. Pain prevents sound sleep. My mom, who has bad rheumatoid arthritis, says that a regular strength Tylenol will knock her out. This is because it reduces her baseline pain to a point where she can rest.

throwaway2037 3y ago
This is a great point. I remember having my wisdom teeth removed in early university. The pain was unbearable at night. I would take pain killers... then wake up 4-6 hours later after they wore off. Waking up from pain is an incredible experience. I can still clearly remember it. And, to state the obvious: After surgery, good sleep is important for healing!

tqi 3y ago

Respectfully, "I firmly believe" followed by an assertion from a non expert passing as "facts" is a pox on our modern society.

tempmac 3y ago
ditto this... "100 years ago" just seem to imply a lot of missing data points (and/or anecdata with lots of mislabeled data)
AB1725 3y ago
The real "pox" is shutting down someone giving their opinions in good faith.
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
  The phrase "shutting down" here is doing a lot of work. Why don't we characterize it as "challenging" them?
  - glitchcrab 3y ago
    But they're not challenging them, are they? If they were challenging the opinions then there would need some sort of rebuttal. Instead they're essentially saying that OP worded it wrongly and therefore their points are invalid.
    - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
      Call it what you want, pushing back on someone's opinion is acceptable, fine, and should be encouraged. What we need to stop doing is making arguments that something being an opinion means it shouldn't be pushed back on. It's one thing if someone says I like broccoli better than pizza, it's another when someone makes a statement that is not about their own preferences. Many of those opinions are bad and should be challenged.
      - 3y ago

vGPU 3y ago

I am neither fat nor obese. In fact, I’m a former amateur bodybuilder. I have sleep apnea. It’s not so much weight as size of the neck.