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Money flow into poor communities of course works. Relatively little money required on global scale. And they probably were given to the organization in some sor
by mantas 3y ago
Money flow into poor communities of course works. Relatively little money required on global scale. And they probably were given to the organization in some sort of a grant.
What happens if you do this in a major economy using it as the source of money? We know what would happen if a bunch of money were printed. What if it was taken out of taxes and crapton of government programs were cancelled? Especially long term.
- coffeebeqn 3y agoI always figured UBI would basically replace and end all government poverty programs at least
- ethanbond 3y agoNope landlords will just raise rents back to approximately the same level of poverty.
- cnasc 3y agoThat would probably make a lot of new housing construction more economically viable. I’m not sure what the overall effects of UBI would be, but this seems like it would be a short term effect.
- SV_BubbleTime 3y agoInteresting way to explain inflation as just greedy landlords. My taxes have tripled in the past 5 years. Appliance, construction, repairs, insurance are all much higher. If I was renting to people - in what world wouldn’t I be forced to raise their rent? Why would I cover that for someone when I have to pay it?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Arson9416 3y ago[flagged]
- konschubert 3y agoIf you upzone and increase supply, it becomes a buyers market and landlords have to lower their prices.
- ethanbond 3y agoThat’s true totally separate from UBI. No matter what else you do, UBI’s effect will be increased rents. In absolute terms you could overcome this by increasing supply, but 1) nothing about UBI makes increasing supply easier, and 2) UBI would reduce the positive effects on rent achieved by increasing supply. If you want to reduce the cost of living you increase supply. UBI will not affect supply nor demand, it will just affect the existing demand’s ability to pay a higher price universally and knowably. As a landlord, I would be an idiot not to raise rents by $x soon after implementation. Every landlord knows this and so they’d all do it together, no coordination necessary.
- charlie0 3y agoI've noticed in the poorest HCOL areas, you've got several low income workers all chipping in for the rent. There's nothing stopping them from trying to move out on their own using their UBI funds. For first movers, they'll increase their quality of life by living by themselvesor less people, but rent prices would quickly rise. You're right in the housing. The only thing that can drop prices is incresed supply and that's not going to happen.
- konschubert 3y agoI think I agree with you. We need to increase supply by upzoning and speeding up permission processes. That will increase supply, depress prices, and solve a lot of social ill without needing UBI.
- AaronM 3y agoCan you point to a single reputable study that shows this would likely happen?
- ethanbond 3y agoYou need a study to see that rents are highest where income is highest and that rents rise as incomes rise?
- AaronM 3y agoYes, just because you say its so doesn't make it so. There should be studies that show when minimim wage or welfare/other forms of assistance increases that rent follows.
- ethanbond 3y agohttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0094119021001030 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00941... > Increases in state minimum wages significantly reduce the incidence of renters defaulting on their lease contracts by 1.7 percentage points over three months, relative to similar renters who did not experience an increase in the minimum wage. This represents 10.6% fewer monthly defaults. However, this effect slowly decreases over time as landlords react to wage increases by increasing rents.
- AaronM 3y agoInteresting, thanks!
- BuyMyBitcoins 3y agoI very much doubt this would happen. The kinds of folks who advocate for UBI would not want to see those who require special accommodation be cut off from assistance programs. For instance, I doubt a paraplegic would be able to support themselves with the standard UBI payment. Also keep in mind the blind get a tax break from the IRS, would such a thing be considered an assistance program? Of course, one could imagine a compassionate government giving additional UBI money to those who are disabled. But, that would require some bureaucracy to verify claims and make adjustments. At which point we’re back to having an assistance program.
- mantas 3y agoThat'd be pretty bad. E.g. government program for disabled people giving out wheelchairs. A good wheelchair is fucking expensive. No sane UBI would cover that. Yet not giving out wheelchairs would fuck over some people to say the least.
- forward1 3y agoThen quite obviously the value of that money would be reduced in a significant way, as it no longer represents goods or labor to the same degree.
- Ajay-p 3y agoIt would probably cause price inflation. I think if my landlord knew that I was receiving an extra amount of money each month, that everyone got this extra amount of money, they would naturally raise the price of my rent. Retailers would do this for certain. Otherwise it is leaving money on the table, and successful businesses tend to be very aware of this. A UBI would only work if there were massive cost controls, which would be antithetical to any capitalist-based system. UBI is an interesting theory but there is already a MUCH better option: Remove income taxes.
- financltravsty 3y agoWould a removal of income tax not net the same result?: an increase in money supply, therefore an increase in inflation. We could always dig at the cultural issue and work towards making greed a degenerate trait to be shunned and managed out.
- logicchains 3y agoYou mean the greed of people who think they're entitled to the fruit of other people's labor merely by being born?
- Arson9416 3y ago[flagged]
- charlie0 3y agoRight. I like the idea of UBI, but from first priciples, a lot of value comes from arbitrage. UBI will benefit the fastest movers, prices will reach new equilibrium points, and then it will be like no one got UBI, people will be back where they started.
- konschubert 3y agoIf everybody earned the same, giving everybody the same amount of money would of course have no effect and simply be cancelled out by inflation. But not everybody earns the same. So handing out cash to everyone should have a compressing effect of wealth.
- cc101 3y agoActually we don't know what would happen if a bunch of money were printed. I assume you expect inflation. What actually happens depends on who gets the money. If rich people get it, I would not expect much to happen. If middle income people get it, we could reasonably expect inflation. If low income people get it, that grows the economy even in a major economy. Let me explain. Yes, if you give middle income people more money, then they can afford to pay more for widgets. So, the widget store owner can increase his income by increasing his prices: Inflation. If low income people get the money, now they can buy the widget that they wanted. So, the widget store owner opens a widget store in a low income area and orders more widgets. The widget manufacturer puts on another shift. Both groups make more money and more people are employed. Should the widget store owner raise his prices, fewer people can afford widgets and the store owner loses money. This won't happen. The real world is more messy than this, but I think the principle applies. "Inflation" is often a bugaboo used by resentful people to brand social innovation as harmful. Such people eventually hurt themselves and hurt their country.
- mantas 3y agoWe did that during pandemics. Mostly rich people got it. Low income people got some scraps too. Inflation happened.
- prewett 3y agoIt was capped at $100k of income (at least in the US) and the US median income is about $75k [1], so I'm not sure how "mostly rich people" got it when 75% of the people who received it were under the median income. [1] https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-279.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-27...
- mantas 3y agoNot sure about US. But here in europe a lot of money went into businesses.