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State-protected real drug cartels and prohibition rackets... can you expand? These drugs aren't just illegal here, are similar drug cartels running countries a

by watty 15y ago

State-protected real drug cartels and prohibition rackets... can you expand? These drugs aren't just illegal here, are similar drug cartels running countries around the world?

api 15y ago
They don't "run countries," but there is massive corruption. Prohibition is basically a price-fixing scheme, and makes illegal drugs obscenely profitable. Years ago I knew a friend who got into it, and he made over $20,000 in one weekend by simply driving a car across the border once. (He ended up getting in trouble unfortunately, though he's much better now and no longer involved.) If a person is willing to put up with the risk, there are few more profitable businesses. I've heard recent figures around $400 billion per year globally. So you've probably got cartels that were they legitimate businesses would be on the Fortune 500. With profits like that, large-scale operations have a lot of money to throw around to bribe cops, judges, government officials, etc. So as a result, the large cartels end up with a privileged position. Smaller operations that cannot afford to have such people on their payroll get targeted preferentially. Look into the history of bootlegging in Chicago in the 20s. It's the same kind of thing. The horrible thing about prohibition is that it's such a potent force for institutional corruption. The naiveté of the soccer moms that support it is disgusting. They all need to be beaten with a reality stick.
- philwelch 15y ago
  > They don't "run countries," Look at Mexico. They might not run the country yet, but they're giving it a go for sure.
- taligent 15y ago
  But of course you have ZERO evidence of US cops, judges, officials being involved in large scale drug trafficking. And how exactly does a corrupt judge work given the appellate process?
  - api 15y ago
    One Google query and 30 seconds of browsing netted: http://www.drugpolicy.org/docUploads/police_corruption_report.pdf http://www.drugpolicy.org/docUploads/police_corruption_repor... and http://articles.cnn.com/2006-11-02/justice/sheriff.indictment_1_indictment-law-enforcement-drug-sniffing-dogs?_s=PM:LAW http://articles.cnn.com/2006-11-02/justice/sheriff.indictmen... and http://www.november.org/razorwire/rzold/11/1107.html http://www.november.org/razorwire/rzold/11/1107.html It's not hard to see the source of the temptation... http://www1.salary.com/police-officer-Salary.html http://www1.salary.com/police-officer-Salary.html
  - drivebyacct2 15y ago
    >And how exactly does a corrupt judge work given the appellate process? Seriously? I can think of a handful of cases, let alone methods, without even resorting to Google.
  - ktizo 15y ago
    Mexico drug plane used for US 'rendition' flights: report (AFP) – Sep 4, 2008 MEXICO CITY (AFP) — A private jet that crash-landed almost one year ago in eastern Mexico carrying 3.3 tons of cocaine had previously been used for CIA "rendition" flights, a newspaper report said here Thursday, citing documents from the United States and the European Parliament. The plane was carrying Colombian drugs for the fugitive leader of Mexico's Sinaloa cartel, Joaquin "Chapo" Guzman, when it crash-landed in the Yucatan peninsula on September 24, El Universal reported. The daily said it had obtained documents from the United States and the European Parliament which "show that that plane flew several times to Guantanamo, Cuba, presumably to transfer terrorism suspects." It said the European Parliament was investigating the private Grumman Gulfstream II, registered by the European Organization for the Safety of Air Navigation, for suspected use in CIA "rendition" flights in which prisoners are covertly transferred to a third country or US-run detention centers. It also said the US Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA) logbook registered that the plane had traveled between US territory and the US military base in Guantanamo. It said the FAA registered its last owner as Clyde O'Connor in Pompano Beach, Florida. Extraordinary rendition has been harshly criticized since it began in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 attacks in the United States. link - http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j6QonBKKMo2gw1e3ql-xUcQEZbVg http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j6QonBKKMo2gw1e3ql-xUcQE...
- steve19 15y ago
  > They don't "run countries," Why would they want to? It is easier just to pay to get politicians elected and then own them for life. See Mexico for an example. Its the same reason Apple does not want to own music labels. A lot of work with poor returns.
- watty 15y ago
  So you think that all countries decided that xyz drugs could be "banned" which would then open up a huge opportunity to sell them illegally? And countries around the world decided this independently? What about the theory that these countries actually believed that banning these substances could increase the health of the country? For example, the christian women and Henry Ford were against alcohol and actually weren't corrupt bootleggers trying to make money by selling moonshine. I'm not saying corruption isn't there, of course there's corruption - police are people too. There is corruption. It doesn't make everyone corrupt and it doesn't mean the _reason_ drugs are illegal is because of corruption. That's silly.
philwelch 15y ago
The money goes from the tobacco, and alcohol manufacturers to the lobbyists to the reelection campaigns for the politicians that eliminate their competition. Pretty decent racket. There are similar rackets for Hollywood movies, petroleum, automobiles.... As api points out, there are also drug rackets and cartels that sell the nominally illegal stuff. Those guys can bend cops to eliminate their competition as well.
- api 15y ago
  Yeah, that's a whole other issue... Having seen people who smoke a lot of marijuana and people who drink a lot of alcohol, I can say with absolute certainty that alcohol is a far more dangerous drug. Ever known a hard-core alcoholic? That stuff eats your soul. It's at least on par with heroin.
  - excuse-me 15y ago
    It's not just the user it's the cost to society. Look at the Stanley cup riots last year - can you imagine the carnage if they had all been out of their skulls on BC-bud rather than beer.
    - api 15y ago
      "Dude, they lost... that totally sucks, man. Hey, is there a pizza joint around here?"
      - excuse-me 15y ago
        I'm pretty sure that smoking a joint instantly turns you into a crack addicted prostitute with greasy hair and spots - while drinking alcohol makes you a suave and sophisticated cool dude. Then I stopped watching TV commercials.

by watty 15y ago

State-protected real drug cartels and prohibition rackets... can you expand? These drugs aren't just illegal here, are similar drug cartels running countries around the world?

api 15y ago

They don't "run countries," but there is massive corruption. Prohibition is basically a price-fixing scheme, and makes illegal drugs obscenely profitable. Years ago I knew a friend who got into it, and he made over $20,000 in one weekend by simply driving a car across the border once. (He ended up getting in trouble unfortunately, though he's much better now and no longer involved.) If a person is willing to put up with the risk, there are few more profitable businesses. I've heard recent figures around $400 billion per year globally. So you've probably got cartels that were they legitimate businesses would be on the Fortune 500. With profits like that, large-scale operations have a lot of money to throw around to bribe cops, judges, government officials, etc. So as a result, the large cartels end up with a privileged position. Smaller operations that cannot afford to have such people on their payroll get targeted preferentially. Look into the history of bootlegging in Chicago in the 20s. It's the same kind of thing. The horrible thing about prohibition is that it's such a potent force for institutional corruption. The naiveté of the soccer moms that support it is disgusting. They all need to be beaten with a reality stick.

philwelch 15y ago
> They don't "run countries," Look at Mexico. They might not run the country yet, but they're giving it a go for sure.
taligent 15y ago
But of course you have ZERO evidence of US cops, judges, officials being involved in large scale drug trafficking. And how exactly does a corrupt judge work given the appellate process?
- api 15y ago
  One Google query and 30 seconds of browsing netted: http://www.drugpolicy.org/docUploads/police_corruption_report.pdf http://www.drugpolicy.org/docUploads/police_corruption_repor... and http://articles.cnn.com/2006-11-02/justice/sheriff.indictment_1_indictment-law-enforcement-drug-sniffing-dogs?_s=PM:LAW http://articles.cnn.com/2006-11-02/justice/sheriff.indictmen... and http://www.november.org/razorwire/rzold/11/1107.html http://www.november.org/razorwire/rzold/11/1107.html It's not hard to see the source of the temptation... http://www1.salary.com/police-officer-Salary.html http://www1.salary.com/police-officer-Salary.html
- drivebyacct2 15y ago
  >And how exactly does a corrupt judge work given the appellate process? Seriously? I can think of a handful of cases, let alone methods, without even resorting to Google.
- ktizo 15y ago
  Mexico drug plane used for US 'rendition' flights: report (AFP) – Sep 4, 2008 MEXICO CITY (AFP) — A private jet that crash-landed almost one year ago in eastern Mexico carrying 3.3 tons of cocaine had previously been used for CIA "rendition" flights, a newspaper report said here Thursday, citing documents from the United States and the European Parliament. The plane was carrying Colombian drugs for the fugitive leader of Mexico's Sinaloa cartel, Joaquin "Chapo" Guzman, when it crash-landed in the Yucatan peninsula on September 24, El Universal reported. The daily said it had obtained documents from the United States and the European Parliament which "show that that plane flew several times to Guantanamo, Cuba, presumably to transfer terrorism suspects." It said the European Parliament was investigating the private Grumman Gulfstream II, registered by the European Organization for the Safety of Air Navigation, for suspected use in CIA "rendition" flights in which prisoners are covertly transferred to a third country or US-run detention centers. It also said the US Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA) logbook registered that the plane had traveled between US territory and the US military base in Guantanamo. It said the FAA registered its last owner as Clyde O'Connor in Pompano Beach, Florida. Extraordinary rendition has been harshly criticized since it began in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 attacks in the United States. link - http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j6QonBKKMo2gw1e3ql-xUcQEZbVg http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j6QonBKKMo2gw1e3ql-xUcQE...
steve19 15y ago
> They don't "run countries," Why would they want to? It is easier just to pay to get politicians elected and then own them for life. See Mexico for an example. Its the same reason Apple does not want to own music labels. A lot of work with poor returns.
watty 15y ago
So you think that all countries decided that xyz drugs could be "banned" which would then open up a huge opportunity to sell them illegally? And countries around the world decided this independently? What about the theory that these countries actually believed that banning these substances could increase the health of the country? For example, the christian women and Henry Ford were against alcohol and actually weren't corrupt bootleggers trying to make money by selling moonshine. I'm not saying corruption isn't there, of course there's corruption - police are people too. There is corruption. It doesn't make everyone corrupt and it doesn't mean the _reason_ drugs are illegal is because of corruption. That's silly.

philwelch 15y ago

The money goes from the tobacco, and alcohol manufacturers to the lobbyists to the reelection campaigns for the politicians that eliminate their competition. Pretty decent racket. There are similar rackets for Hollywood movies, petroleum, automobiles.... As api points out, there are also drug rackets and cartels that sell the nominally illegal stuff. Those guys can bend cops to eliminate their competition as well.

api 15y ago
Yeah, that's a whole other issue... Having seen people who smoke a lot of marijuana and people who drink a lot of alcohol, I can say with absolute certainty that alcohol is a far more dangerous drug. Ever known a hard-core alcoholic? That stuff eats your soul. It's at least on par with heroin.
- excuse-me 15y ago
  It's not just the user it's the cost to society. Look at the Stanley cup riots last year - can you imagine the carnage if they had all been out of their skulls on BC-bud rather than beer.
  - api 15y ago
    "Dude, they lost... that totally sucks, man. Hey, is there a pizza joint around here?"
    - excuse-me 15y ago
      I'm pretty sure that smoking a joint instantly turns you into a crack addicted prostitute with greasy hair and spots - while drinking alcohol makes you a suave and sophisticated cool dude. Then I stopped watching TV commercials.