4 ms·

You bring up the Hippocratic Oath, so let's use doctors as an example. If the "public good" takes precedence over the individual patient, then any patient with

You bring up the Hippocratic Oath, so let's use doctors as an example. If the "public good" takes precedence over the individual patient, then any patient with a communicable disease with a fatality rate should be euthanized. Do you think that's ethical? Elevating public good as the primary concern necessarily means pure utilitarianism. There isn't a society on earth today that accepts pure utilitarianism as a valid ethical system. And in countries that trend closer to pure utilitarianism, public policy is repugnant: https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-venezuela-elderly-idINKBN21O1DJ/ https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-venezuela...

refulgentis 3y ago
I see, thank you, that's also a really good explanation of why my mind must have jumped to effective altruism, and the 238 billion lives saved 347 years if you give me $10 for lunch. I guess with the Hippocratic oath, I'm thinking a simile would be: "well, if first do no harm takes precedence literally 100% of the time, that could lead to 0 treatment because there's always a potential for harm"
- spencerflem 3y ago
  I like it though, its simple and direct - do not harm your patient. I like the software engineering guides that say things like "do no harm to your User" which is way less nebulous than having to consider all of society, while also stopping most of what I consider to be pretty severe ethical violations being done by big tech and the software engineers that work there
sgift 3y ago
But that's not what the code does. There's a rule that says "avoid harm", which directly contradicts (imho) euthanizing someone without a very good reason (and no, I don't agree that "public good" is one). More importantly, there exists neither a rule nor a specific definition what public good means. You've taken your personal interpretation of the words from the preamble, ran with it and from that inferred that the code is unethical.
- torstenvl 3y ago
  The reason would be to avoid that person spreading the fatal disease, thereby avoiding M deaths at the cost of 1 death. Killing the patient avoids a greater harm than letting them walk out of the healthcare facility. This isn't a personal interpretation, it's raw math, and it occurs in every society where the "public good" outweighs individual rights.
spit2wind 3y ago
Fun fact: Kevorkian put out a jazz album titled, "A Very Still Life."

refulgentis 3y ago

I see, thank you, that's also a really good explanation of why my mind must have jumped to effective altruism, and the 238 billion lives saved 347 years if you give me $10 for lunch. I guess with the Hippocratic oath, I'm thinking a simile would be: "well, if first do no harm takes precedence literally 100% of the time, that could lead to 0 treatment because there's always a potential for harm"

spencerflem 3y ago
I like it though, its simple and direct - do not harm your patient. I like the software engineering guides that say things like "do no harm to your User" which is way less nebulous than having to consider all of society, while also stopping most of what I consider to be pretty severe ethical violations being done by big tech and the software engineers that work there

sgift 3y ago

But that's not what the code does. There's a rule that says "avoid harm", which directly contradicts (imho) euthanizing someone without a very good reason (and no, I don't agree that "public good" is one). More importantly, there exists neither a rule nor a specific definition what public good means. You've taken your personal interpretation of the words from the preamble, ran with it and from that inferred that the code is unethical.

torstenvl 3y ago
The reason would be to avoid that person spreading the fatal disease, thereby avoiding M deaths at the cost of 1 death. Killing the patient avoids a greater harm than letting them walk out of the healthcare facility. This isn't a personal interpretation, it's raw math, and it occurs in every society where the "public good" outweighs individual rights.

spit2wind 3y ago

Fun fact: Kevorkian put out a jazz album titled, "A Very Still Life."