8 ms·

The 50 Years That Made America

67 points by samclemens 3y ago

indus 3y ago
Wish: Stories like these should be published during the weekend. So that one can leisurely read, meander into the hyperlinks, watch a few related Ken Burns videos, and then ruminate even more by creating some Dall-E images. Most of that time's history does not cover the incredible economic development that happened during that period, where US capita income leapfrogged that of Britain. Thousands of new patents were filed, new machines were created, and the foundation of the financial and industrial boom was created, the riches of which we still enjoy today.
082349872349872 3y ago
I wonder how much the Monroe Doctrine might have been —at least in part— a reaction to https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Final_Act_of_the_Congress_of_Vienna/Act_XV https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Final_Act_of_the_Congress_of_... ?
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago
  The United States had already banned the slave trade in 1808 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_Prohibiting_Importation_of_Slaves https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_Prohibiting_Importation_...) so, no, it is unlikely that the Monroe Doctrine was a reaction to that.
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    "banned"; cf https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_Prohibiting_Importation_of_Slaves#Effectiveness_and_prosecutions_for_slaving https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_Prohibiting_Importation_... > The U.S. position meant that many slave ships from other countries falsely flew the American flag to avoid being seized by British anti-slaving patrols. ... The Atlantic slave trade was not ended until the U.S. Civil War, when American-built and -managed ships were prevented from operating.
    - dirtyhippiefree 3y ago
      Study the Clotilda…
jihadjihad 3y ago
It's OT, but one of the more insane coincidences I've come across in my life is that John Adams and Thomas Jefferson died on the same day: July 4, 1826, the 50th anniversary of the adoption of the Declaration of Independence.
- dboreham 3y ago
  Sometimes, to a certain extent, people can choose the day they die on.
  - dirtyhippiefree 3y ago
    If a spouse or child dies…see Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds…
- 0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago
  July 4 1863 was arguably the turning point of the US Civil War as well, near-simultaneous Union victories at both Gettysburg and Vicksburg.
  - bojan 3y ago
    As a non-American I was always under the impression that the Confederation never actually stood a chance. But I might be completely wrong here.
    - avhon1 3y ago
      The Confederacy was never going to win outright, and they knew it. Their goal was to force a stalemate, allowing them to continue to exist as a separate country from the United States. edit: and for the first few years, it looked like they might be able to do that.
      - toast0 3y ago
        The US war of independence is considered won, and the US didn't conquer England. I'm sure I have all sorts of wrong headed bias, but I never thought the Confederacy had any larger goal than independence? Why would it be a stalemate and not a victory for them if they were allowed to exist as a separate country?
Animats 3y ago
They missed the events that made the United States a world power - the suppression of the Barbary pirates. There's an entertaining version of this as a YouTube video by Drachfinel.[1] Up until the early 19th century, all the European sea powers, and the United States, were paying tribute to the Barbary pirates just to get into the Mediterranean Sea. This was one of the largest expenses of the early U.S. Government. Then came the War of 1812, US vs Britain, which the US won. A side effect was that the US now had an effective, battle-hardened navy. Which was sent to Tripoli to deal with the problem.[2] Which it did. The European sea powers hadn't been able to take down the Barbary pirates. When the US did, the US started to be taken seriously as a country able to project power. It also began the American style of warfare - build big hammer, use big hammer - which worked well up to Vietnam. This is where the line "to the shores of Tripoli", in the USMC Hymn, comes from. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSBmGaLt5OU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSBmGaLt5OU [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Barbary_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Barbary_War
- soperj 3y ago
  > Then came the War of 1812, US vs Britain, which the US won Never realized how bad the American education system really was. In what way did you win this war that you started?
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    The American education system is extremely local. I learned in NYC that we didn’t win the war of 1812. The local control of education is also why education is such a hot battleground for the culture wars; it doesn’t take many zealots to take control of a local school system with low turnout elections.
  - hackernewds 3y ago
    As an immigrant now settled in the US, I'm shocked at how little Americans know about geography, especially for a country that has the most global impact. Often been asked whether I've climbed Everest and how cold it must has been in Tibet for me. To this day, frustratingly George Bush hasn't learned to pronounce Iraq well, at least the smallest respect to a plundered country.
keiferski 3y ago
It's not about the time period mentioned in the article, but I highly recommend the similarly-named "The Men Who Built America" documentary series. Really interesting (and inspiring) if you're interested in the industrial development of the US circa 1860-1930. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV3DmWNCEaI&list=PL-_k1uJcDMNdAkhdkHHBkFTqoWo8jFZRN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV3DmWNCEaI&list=PL-_k1uJcDM...
pmontra 3y ago
> How did a group of British colonies become a self-proclaimed protector of continents within half a century? 50 years are a long time if a country makes the right moves. Think of where China was in 1973 and where it is in 2023. The same applies to making the wrong moves and they are much easier to do. There are so many examples that I won't make any. Pick your favorite one.
- batushka3 3y ago
  Couter example would be Republic of Rhodesia - from the breadbasket of Africa to a meme with zeros not fiting on the bill of Zimbabwean dollar.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Is that a counter example? I thought a counter example would refute the notion that 50 years is not a sufficiently long time frame for considerable change to occur.
    - kelipso 3y ago
      There is not point in even discussing counter examples, since they don't make sense it this context. You just need to show that an example exists.
maxglute 3y ago
> Fifty years separate the Boston Tea Party and the Monroe Doctrine The type of sentence that reminds me of > Cleopatra lived closer in time to the building of the first Pizza Hut than to the building of the pyramids

67 points by samclemens 3y ago

Wish: Stories like these should be published during the weekend. So that one can leisurely read, meander into the hyperlinks, watch a few related Ken Burns videos, and then ruminate even more by creating some Dall-E images. Most of that time's history does not cover the incredible economic development that happened during that period, where US capita income leapfrogged that of Britain. Thousands of new patents were filed, new machines were created, and the foundation of the financial and industrial boom was created, the riches of which we still enjoy today.

082349872349872 3y ago

I wonder how much the Monroe Doctrine might have been —at least in part— a reaction to https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Final_Act_of_the_Congress_of_Vienna/Act_XV https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Final_Act_of_the_Congress_of_... ?

RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago
The United States had already banned the slave trade in 1808 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_Prohibiting_Importation_of_Slaves https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_Prohibiting_Importation_...) so, no, it is unlikely that the Monroe Doctrine was a reaction to that.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  "banned"; cf https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_Prohibiting_Importation_of_Slaves#Effectiveness_and_prosecutions_for_slaving https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_Prohibiting_Importation_... > The U.S. position meant that many slave ships from other countries falsely flew the American flag to avoid being seized by British anti-slaving patrols. ... The Atlantic slave trade was not ended until the U.S. Civil War, when American-built and -managed ships were prevented from operating.
  - dirtyhippiefree 3y ago
    Study the Clotilda…

jihadjihad 3y ago

It's OT, but one of the more insane coincidences I've come across in my life is that John Adams and Thomas Jefferson died on the same day: July 4, 1826, the 50th anniversary of the adoption of the Declaration of Independence.

dboreham 3y ago
Sometimes, to a certain extent, people can choose the day they die on.
- dirtyhippiefree 3y ago
  If a spouse or child dies…see Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds…
0xDEAFBEAD 3y ago
July 4 1863 was arguably the turning point of the US Civil War as well, near-simultaneous Union victories at both Gettysburg and Vicksburg.
- bojan 3y ago
  As a non-American I was always under the impression that the Confederation never actually stood a chance. But I might be completely wrong here.
  - avhon1 3y ago
    The Confederacy was never going to win outright, and they knew it. Their goal was to force a stalemate, allowing them to continue to exist as a separate country from the United States. edit: and for the first few years, it looked like they might be able to do that.
    - toast0 3y ago
      The US war of independence is considered won, and the US didn't conquer England. I'm sure I have all sorts of wrong headed bias, but I never thought the Confederacy had any larger goal than independence? Why would it be a stalemate and not a victory for them if they were allowed to exist as a separate country?

Animats 3y ago

They missed the events that made the United States a world power - the suppression of the Barbary pirates. There's an entertaining version of this as a YouTube video by Drachfinel.[1] Up until the early 19th century, all the European sea powers, and the United States, were paying tribute to the Barbary pirates just to get into the Mediterranean Sea. This was one of the largest expenses of the early U.S. Government. Then came the War of 1812, US vs Britain, which the US won. A side effect was that the US now had an effective, battle-hardened navy. Which was sent to Tripoli to deal with the problem.[2] Which it did. The European sea powers hadn't been able to take down the Barbary pirates. When the US did, the US started to be taken seriously as a country able to project power. It also began the American style of warfare - build big hammer, use big hammer - which worked well up to Vietnam. This is where the line "to the shores of Tripoli", in the USMC Hymn, comes from. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSBmGaLt5OU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSBmGaLt5OU [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Barbary_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Barbary_War

soperj 3y ago
> Then came the War of 1812, US vs Britain, which the US won Never realized how bad the American education system really was. In what way did you win this war that you started?
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  The American education system is extremely local. I learned in NYC that we didn’t win the war of 1812. The local control of education is also why education is such a hot battleground for the culture wars; it doesn’t take many zealots to take control of a local school system with low turnout elections.
- hackernewds 3y ago
  As an immigrant now settled in the US, I'm shocked at how little Americans know about geography, especially for a country that has the most global impact. Often been asked whether I've climbed Everest and how cold it must has been in Tibet for me. To this day, frustratingly George Bush hasn't learned to pronounce Iraq well, at least the smallest respect to a plundered country.

keiferski 3y ago

It's not about the time period mentioned in the article, but I highly recommend the similarly-named "The Men Who Built America" documentary series. Really interesting (and inspiring) if you're interested in the industrial development of the US circa 1860-1930. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV3DmWNCEaI&list=PL-_k1uJcDMNdAkhdkHHBkFTqoWo8jFZRN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NV3DmWNCEaI&list=PL-_k1uJcDM...

pmontra 3y ago

> How did a group of British colonies become a self-proclaimed protector of continents within half a century? 50 years are a long time if a country makes the right moves. Think of where China was in 1973 and where it is in 2023. The same applies to making the wrong moves and they are much easier to do. There are so many examples that I won't make any. Pick your favorite one.

batushka3 3y ago
Couter example would be Republic of Rhodesia - from the breadbasket of Africa to a meme with zeros not fiting on the bill of Zimbabwean dollar.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Is that a counter example? I thought a counter example would refute the notion that 50 years is not a sufficiently long time frame for considerable change to occur.
  - kelipso 3y ago
    There is not point in even discussing counter examples, since they don't make sense it this context. You just need to show that an example exists.

maxglute 3y ago

> Fifty years separate the Boston Tea Party and the Monroe Doctrine The type of sentence that reminds me of > Cleopatra lived closer in time to the building of the first Pizza Hut than to the building of the pyramids